Who wants Bran to meet Jon? [ Book Spoilers ]

[Night'sQueen]

I agree but I also think that seems kind of pointless considering Queenscrow was less than 10 episodes ago..the whole converging of plotlines with Locke thrown in (that part I like at least the general idea of it) baffled me..

-Mutineers at Craster's Keep is fine - Even Karl painted up for someone you want to hate on TV is fine for a short-term plot

But jumping from one episode of 'We have to capture or kill them for strategic reasons' to 'Where could Bran have gone?' 'Wildling villages are empty maybe he went to Crasters' and 'Let's take this new guy with us'... I'm not saying it may not work out in the end as good television but it's not clever or good writing in the slightest (this isn't the episode writer it's probably more a function of bringing Jon back too early because they felt like they had to and now needing 4-5 episodes to keep that plot building towards the condensed battle.

I agree. The whole thing seems overly contrived and yet lazy. And sensationalized since apparently Bran's journey was too boring for TV. (Full disclosure: Bran is my favorite character in the books and his story is the one I find most fascinating so I catch myself grinding my teeth Stannis style when the show messes with him.) So it seems like they decided to have Bran & Co get kidnapped by the cartoonish mutineers and throw a bit of rape in as a backdrop to make his journey more suspenseful and exciting. Many of my issues with that part of the episode are detailed in the nitpicking thread -- direwolves captured and caged as easily as common dogs, Locke happening to overhear Jon and Sam seemed especially stagey.

Changes for the sake of adapting this to screen are necessary, but when they are poorly written, don't advance the plot, rush the plot too much or lack continuity with previous episodes it's jarring and the whole suspension of disbelief collapses.

[Chebyshov]

No...it would be better if they didn't meet. Still hoping Coldhands will show in some capacity.

I'm not sure how this would happen anymore, though. While Jon & Brothers fight the Craster Crew, would CH run in and free Bran's lot? Seems like the entire point of Jon being the one to take care of the mutineers is to tie up that loose end without CH.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

Very good points. Which Jon vision are you talking about though?

I don't have my books ATM, so I cannot give you a chapter off the top of my head... it is talked about in this thread, however.

Gotta go to work for now!

[Hangover of the Morning]

My bet is that it is going to be a near miss. Bran and co will escape before they can meet with Jon (or Jojen will prevent it) but Jon will be lead to believe that they were murdered by the mutineers, who will be subsequently killed by the NW men. Jon will be reunited with Ghost and so we will be back on track with the book story.

In a way it is better than in the books. I always found the fact that Sam didn't tell Jon about Bran going beyond the Wall stupid and frustrating.

Heartwarming reunion would be fantastic but since I know that it did not really happen, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it.

[Ironclaw]

IMO and I repeat IMO I do not want there to be a BJ rendezvous (lol) in the near future. there is good chance chance but little need for Bran's company to meet with Jon for as many have stated for plot reasons. The show has obviously deviated from the books giving away unconfirmed theories about the novels (LF and QoT involvement in the death of KJ) and glimpses towards things we have yet to see in the novels (The reveal of the Other's stronghold of you wanna call it that and a reveal of what is really done with Craster's boys). Then there's the deviations from the novels with character story lines. There's so many examples I don't even want to start on those examples. However all these minor plot changes have not so far changed the fabric of the story SO FAR. However the Sandor/Arya plot change irked me for reasons involving their character relationship however that's not what we are here to discuss. My reason for not wanting and not believing that Bran company and Jon will meet is simple. It will significantly shape how the plot of the story goes. There is a reason that none of the Starks have met. It drives the plot of other characters significantly throughout the rest of the novel and will change the course of how essential plots unfold. The biggest book betrayal the show has done so far IMO is of Sam telling Jon of his Bran encounter. Jon knows the dangers beyond the wall and has love for Bran. Book Jon would have rode north all day to rescue Bran because A. He can ride beyond north of the wall and would not let Bran go by himself, thus forever changing Jon's destiny as LC. But if you look at Jon and Bran Company meeting it will utterly destroy the book plot and kill a major burning question for all the readers. What is Jon's true parentage? I think this setup is an obvious ploy to get asoiaf readers to be put on the edge of their seats. It's the question most readers have and to keep us interested you need to have us fearful/begging of the possibility of that reveal and how it will shape the show. Obviously DB and DW know Jon's true parentage. Most of us believe the R + L= J. For good reason. But Jon running into the Reeds and Bran will change how Jon transforms and betray who his character is if he lets them ride north without him and the knowledge they may or may not have about his parentage would be given away by a run in. That would ruin something GRRM would wanna reveal himself and not be casually dropped into a midseason episode too early on in the progression of the story. It really should be nothing more than a tease. If it leads to more than that it will severely ruin the integrity of the story the novels tell as a whole. They may switch things up in the show but I don't believe they will diverge onto a different road completely.

[sj4iy]

I agree. The whole thing seems overly contrived and yet lazy. And sensationalized since apparently Bran's journey was too boring for TV. (Full disclosure: Bran is my favorite character in the books and his story is the one I find most fascinating so I catch myself grinding my teeth Stannis style when the show messes with him.) So it seems like they decided to have Bran & Co get kidnapped by the cartoonish mutineers and throw a bit of rape in as a backdrop to make his journey more suspenseful and exciting. Many of my issues with that part of the episode are detailed in the nitpicking thread -- direwolves captured and caged as easily as common dogs, Locke happening to overhear Jon and Sam seemed especially stagey.

Changes for the sake of adapting this to screen are necessary, but when they are poorly written, don't advance the plot, rush the plot too much or lack continuity with previous episodes it's jarring and the whole suspension of disbelief collapses.

...not sure how that statement applies to this particular scenario at all. It's neither rushing nor stopping the plot, and it has a lot of continuity and actually makes sense that it could happen. In fact, it's probably the most exciting thing to happen, especially for the book readers who don't know what's coming next. Jon's my favorite character in the books, and I like that they've been changing his story because now I get to see something completely unexpected and badass.

[Cas Stark]

...not sure how that statement applies to this particular scenario at all. It's neither rushing nor stopping the plot, and it has a lot of continuity and actually makes sense that it could happen. In fact, it's probably the most exciting thing to happen, especially for the book readers who don't know what's coming next. Jon's my favorite character in the books, and I like that they've been changing his story because now I get to see something completely unexpected and badass.

I have to agree w/the previous poster that it is super contrived and lazy that Meera, who is supposed to be a fantastic huntress and Summer are both completely oblivious to the fact that they are within ear shot of Craster's Keep...no idea...until they hear a baby crying...

[MrsManderly]

Thinking about it further, the point made by a poster above (sorry, forget who it was!) may turn out to be the redeeming virtue of this storyline - namely warging.

If Jon is indeed to warg Ghost post-stabbing, it may make sense for him and Bran to have an encounter at Crasters where Jon sees Bran warg Summer and perhaps for the first time wargs Ghost himself... If I am not mistaken, so far the show hasn't shown us any warging tendencies in Jon, of the kind we get from his (and, say, Arya's) dreams in the book. If that's correct, then maybe Bran and Jon crossing paths at Crasters makes some sense. (Although, arguably, the same plot development could have been achieved through their near-meeting at Queenscrown.)

[Little and Less]

Actually I got the feeling that D & D want to have Bran be the Hero.... Capturing Bran was a way to show his true warging abilities to the audience...which will be kick ass and revive Bran's stagnating story line.

Karl and the traitors will push Bran too far...probably by threatening to kill the Reeds...and he will either warg Hodor and Hodor will escape and let out Summer and Ghost (who I think will be our only reuniting of the Starks via their direwolves)...I see the direwolves laying waste to Crasters Keep (oh Rast, you should have made nice with Ghost when you had the chance) and by the time Jon and Co. reach the Keep all the traitors will be dead (not sure about Crasters wives)....and Bran and the Reeds will have fled....

I think a Locke assisination attempt will be thwarted because of the carnage....and maybe the sight of Ghost/Bran missing will have Locke rethinking his plan. I welcome the addition of Locke and whether Jon will see through him at some point.

This of course is how I would write it, oh dare to dream...

[ovis alba]

This of course is how I would write it, oh dare to dream...

and I'd probably watch it. :D

[sj4iy]

I have to agree w/the previous poster that it is super contrived and lazy that Meera, who is supposed to be a fantastic huntress and Summer are both completely oblivious to the fact that they are within ear shot of Craster's Keep...no idea...until they hear a baby crying...

No more contrived than a dead good guy coming to lead them to the Children of the Forest and killing the mutineers along the way...and then nothing else. To me it's just as contrived to find ways to keep the siblings separated each time they come close to finding one another.

[Miss Carnahan]

Not me.

The thing about the Starks is that they're constantly being seperated by external conditions. If there's to be a Stark reunion, it should be at the very end of ADOS (IMO).

Edit: Why wasn't Jon wondering about his youngest brother Rickon???

[sj4iy]

Not me.

The thing about the Starks is that they're constantly being seperated by external conditions. If there's to be a Stark reunion, it should be at the very end of ADOS (IMO).

Edit: Why wasn't Jon wondering about his youngest brother Rickon???

Because Rickon and Osha had left by the time Samwell and Gilly found them.

[Trillian]

I do think it will be a "near miss" too (and in a way I hope so).

I don't mind the change of the story though. Bran's journey it's fairly "static" in the book, meaning that's more about an inner journey that a physical one, and since the depth of it couldn't be matched on tv for obvious reasons, the choice was probably between cutting the character or making him "do something". Obviously I prefer his book journey, but I do understand the HBO logic. As other people said, the only disappointment for me was the capture of the direwolves, which makes them look no more special than, like, a common German Sheperd or something. Besides that, I am open to the show developments and I think it's too early for judging the changes properly.

[Miss Carnahan]

Because Rickon and Osha had left by the time Samwell and Gilly found them.

I know, but wouldn't Jon have thought it odd that Rickon and Bran had been seperated? Because if he knows that Bran is still alive, then surely he must realise that Rickon should be alive as well. and seeing as Sam probably didn't mention Rickon, that should have made him wonder about Rickon's whereabouts ... Then again, the series has a tendency to forget about Rickon's existence, so I'll try not be bothered by it.

[iknownothingjonsnow]

Either way, I’ll be very disappointed if the whole point in Bran being captured was just to tease the audience with another near miss.

This is the only strong feeling I have one way or the other. I don't need their characters to meet, but to have things again line up perfectly to prevent the occurrence to which things seem to be heading naturally would be contrivance run amok.

D&D's version of ASOIAF is starting to feel like what I imagine happens when you read a Dickens novel backwards...

[GeorgeIAF]

I hope they don't meet, probably another near-miss ... it would be hard to explain what happens next, or to stay close to the books if they will meet

[Uldra I]

I don't have my books ATM, so I cannot give you a chapter off the top of my head... it is talked about in this thread, however.

Gotta go to work for now!

great link! Thanks

[teemo]

I don't. That's just too much of a deviation (even though it is already). It'll come close but I doubt it'll happen.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

What does "watching the show" have to do with it at all?

I think it would change a whole lot of Jon's motivation and the way especially he himself sees him as a character if he finds out who he really is before he "dies" and this would have a huge impact on the story as a whole to me. But do I have to stop watching the show, when it becomes diffrent from the books? I would probably be even more interested watching if i knew the show had no clue how the books ended to see how different two endings of the same initial story can be :D

How about we actually wait and find out how Jon comes through the assassination attempt before we descibe it as dying. For all we know, Jon may just use the presence of Ghost to help him heal, as Bran seemed to do after the fall.