King Zee Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I agree that the show makes it seem like Dany doesn't care which 163 people get crucified, but in the books she tells the the slavers to select 163 of their leaders, so it's not as arbitrary. That makes it even more arbitrary. What guarantee is there the GM will choose the guilty parties rather than the 163 most expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankou Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 That makes it even more arbitrary. What guarantee is there the GM will choose the guilty parties rather than the 163 most expendable. We want Barabbus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonsnake Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Please don't twist what I said to fit your argument. All the Great Master knew what would happen if the were indeed defeated by Daenerys, I can't believe that a rationally thinking person would not imagine that there wouldn't be consequences to their actions. Some of these Masters were some of the richest people in the whole of Essos, if they did not agree with the way their government was run, they could have simply left at any time. They were not slaves. If they chose to participate in their government as it stood then they chose to be responsible for the consequences of said government. In fact, lets make this easier if they wanted to stay in their homeland of Meereen and they didn't like the way the council of the Great Masters worked they could have formed an opposing council. Once again, Meereen does not exist in a vacuum there were other sisters of government they could have emulated. It didn't twist anything, it added the influence on agency and rationality that you omitted. It is possible for Tywin to put on one of Cersei's dresses and show up to Tyrion's trial dancing and singing. It is possible for Sansa to start biting her left little finger and gnaw at the flesh with all her vigor and strength. It is possible for Jorah to tell lies to Varys and have him prepare for a dragon attack. What is left out from stating these possibilities is full of thwarting, obstructing influences, an infinite variety of factors and influences. We cannot hope to know them all, or to account for the entirety of them in understanding or judging their actions. But applying a clean-cut rationality, a formulaic calculation of possibilities, risks and probabilities, to clueless, limited, hapless people as we all are, is not wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 It didn't twist anything, it added the influence on agency and rationality that you omitted. It is possible for Tywin to put on one of Cersei's dresses and show up to Tyrion's trial dancing and singing. It is possible for Sansa to start biting her left little finger and gnaw at the flesh with all her vigor and strength. It is possible for Jorah to tell lies to Varys and have him prepare for a dragon attack. What is left out from stating these possibilities is full of thwarting, obstructing influences, an infinite variety of factors and influences. We cannot hope to know them all, or to account for the entirety of them in understanding or judging their actions. But applying a clean-cut rationality, a formulaic calculation of possibilities, risks and probabilities, to clueless, limited, hapless people as we all are, is not wise. :bs: The Great Master as a council decided to crucify 163 children (whether some disagreed or not we don't know), do you for a second believed that NONE of those men ever considered the possibility that they would be defeated. Please! They world they live in isn't a vary tale, there are ALWAYS consequences to their actions and to claim otherwise is :bs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonsnake Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 :bs: The Great Master as a council decided to crucify 163 children (whether some disagreed or not we don't know), do you for a second believed that NONE of those men ever considered the possibility that they would be defeated. Please! They world they live in isn't a vary tale, there are ALWAYS consequences to their actions and to claim otherwise is :bs: I can easily imagine consideration, calculation, fear, foolishness, stubborness, oscillation, good arguments, bad arguments, I can imagine heated debate in Valyrian, bad-taste jokes intercepting serious tones. I can imagine one of them silent, thoughtful, suicidal even, hopeless. I can imagine one of them utterly hating the slaves, only fueled by the possibility of punishing one of his. I can imagine one of them praying, another not worrying a bit. I can imagine plethoras of influences and affects that added onto their calculation, their perception of the possibilities, the threats, the probabilities. One of them may have daydreamed about Tywin in a pretty dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 I can easily imagine consideration, calculation, fear, foolishness, stubborness, oscillation, good arguments, bad arguments, I can imagine heated debate in Valyrian, bad-taste jokes intercepting serious tones. I can imagine one of them silent, thoughtful, suicidal even, hopeless. I can imagine one of them utterly hating the slaves, only fueled by the possibility of punishing one of his. I can imagine one of them praying, another not worrying a bit. I can imagine plethoras of influences and affects that added onto their calculation, their perception of the possibilities, the threats, the probabilities. One of them may have daydreamed about Tywin in a pretty dress.:bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:This is the last I'll say to you because I won't be bother with people who refuse to consider that adults in power do think about the consequences of their actions Anyone, who is I'm the mist of a war would consider the ramifications of their actions whether or not they chose to follow those actions. There GM knew Dany had defeated two cities prior to arriving to Meereen, and chose to cx 163 in an effort to deter her. Now, there are 163 miles between Yunkai and Meereen which gave the GM plenty of time to consider the ramifications of their actions. They GM weren't inexperience yahoos, they are season businessmen and slavers and as such they understand risk, believe you mean they understood the risk. Now, do me a favor and take your ridiculous arguments and post them on another thread. We are trying to have a discussion about the blurred line between revenge and justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonsnake Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm ok with not continuing. Fictions, stories, novels are fantasy, and the magic of words, images lays before our eyes possibilities, emotions, limits, thoughts, dreams, and we supplement the picture with more of the same. If your preferred style is to supplement it with formulas and the rationality pertaining to economics, not the intricacies of humans, it's one way of reading, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Er Rn Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 And yet Ned's beheading of the member of the NW wasn't really justice. Yes, he followed the law but the man had a good reason to run away. In fact had the man had a trial they would have found out about the WW and they wouldn't be in such a bad shape to take care of this imminent thread.Re: Ned beheading the deserter. Yes, Gared saw the Others and his companions turned to wights. Yes, he had good reason to run away back to the Wall. He should've gone back to tell the NW what happened, not continue south. Desertion from the NW is punishable by death. Ned doesn't randomly pick 10 runaways to behead.Back to Dany, I actually think she would've done better to execute all the Great Masters. If it's being argued that they're all evil slavers and deserve to die, why stop at 163? What if #164 was the great mastermind behind the crucifixion of the slave children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Agree to disagree, the GM's had it coming, same as the slavers in Astapor. i'm glad Dany killed them, 'she deserves her vengeance, and we deserve to die, but then again so does she'--Bud Kill Bill Morality conversations do not really interest me in relation to these novels, no one is moral, almost everyone deserves to die. She has a cause and the GM's dont, she is the hero and they are not, they pissed her off and now they are paying for it.Love this post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Love this post! :) Thanks man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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