(Book Spoilers) Jon Snow's Ability

[Blazfemur]

I read the original post and i was like, "what, are you kidding me? Jon frequently wargs Ghost inadvertantly.."

and then i thought back and i was like...

Wait, he's right they never touched on it on the show.. BY THE TITS OF R'HLLOR! RABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE!!!!

...nearly spit out all my sharkbites.

[Tixu Oty]

I'm certain that Jon and Arya's warging abilities will be introduced sooner or later in the show, because it'll HAVE to come into play down the road, if Varamyr taught us anything....

But, I don't think we are getting much of it this season. It could be though, since there has already been hints to remind us that there are wargs around: Orell this season, and now the Thenn warg, whose only other purpose is probably to be burned out of the sky...

If Jon gets to meet Jojen or Meera, they can drop him a hint. I don't think Bran would teach him anything, since he doesn't seem to be aware his siblings are all wargs too.

But mostly I was thinking it would be Melisandre who would be in the best position to let Jon know that he's special and should nurture that strong connection with his wolf. There may be a few additional hints, but I don't think it will be made super clear untill Jon is forced to warg into Ghost "for the Watch". This way the viewer can get the idea little by little that yeah, Arya and Jon are wargs too.

[Greywolf2375]

1. Hostage - they know that he's Jon's wolf and how much he cares about Ghost, so he makes a good hostage

2. Alarm - Ghost can warn them when enemies are coming (yes, I know he's mute in the book, but he's not in the show)

3. Food - sort of a 'last resort' sort of thing, but they'll run out of food eventually and it's better to keep him alive until then

1) why would they give a rats ass about keeping a hostage specific to Jon? They just killed the LC and are drinking out of his skull...they're not really in a "lets negotiate" position.

2) Ghost could warn them...if he chose to. Why would he make any noise at all?

3) so they are feeding him to keep him alive to eat him? why not kill him and put the meat in the same place as Craster did?

[sj4iy]

1) why would they give a rats ass about keeping a hostage specific to Jon? They just killed the LC and are drinking out of his skull...they're not really in a "lets negotiate" position.

2) Ghost could warn them...if he chose to. Why would he make any noise at all?

3) so they are feeding him to keep him alive to eat him? why not kill him and put the meat in the same place as Craster did?

No need to be hostile about it. I'm just thinking of reasons why...clearly, have they one.

[Moët]

This is the one thing missing I will be really disappointed if they've decided to cut.

I'm certain that Jon and Arya's warging abilities will be introduced sooner or later in the show, because it'll HAVE to come into play down the road, if Varamyr taught us anything....

But, I don't think we are getting much of it this season. It could be though, since there has already been hints to remind us that there are wargs around: Orell this season, and now the Thenn warg, whose only other purpose is probably to be burned out of the sky...

If Jon gets to meet Jojen or Meera, they can drop him a hint. I don't think Bran would teach him anything, since he doesn't seem to be aware his siblings are all wargs too.

But mostly I was thinking it would be Melisandre who would be in the best position to let Jon know that he's special and should nurture that strong connection with his wolf. There may be a few additional hints, but I don't think it will be made super clear untill Jon is forced to warg into Ghost "for the Watch". This way the viewer can get the idea little by little that yeah, Arya and Jon are wargs too.

Actually, those are very viable possibilities, and would make sense.

This coming Sunday at Craster's: I think Bran and Jon will be a near miss. But I do think it would be perfect if Jojen gets to speak with Jon in the confusion, and tell him to his face because he sees/senses what Jon is, but doesn't have a clue. He could also get Jon's connection to Arya, and see that Arya is as well, (how cool would it be to discover Lyanna was as well.... )

I think the biggest disappointment would be for Arya/Nymeria not dragging LS out of the river.... and we meet LS after all the magic happens to her, and we end up having it told to us next season by Thoros & Beric.

I do think they've set up this season for Jon & Arya warging quite effectively - both the Bran warging Summer sequences have been very direct and clear - we could have another one of those moments, only it's Jon and/or Arya waking from them and being shocked out of their minds.

It would be perfect for Arya this season in ep10 - Nymeria drags LS out of the river, and when she's scarred off by Thoros and Beric, it's Arya who wakes up - shocking the audience - then we straight into LS's rez - and it's the end of the season.

If that happened, they could awaken Jon next season so it's not too all at once.

Still - I just want them to get to it already, and not skip it. It seems too big a part of their characters and story arcs to cut. (I hope.)

[Blazfemur]

This is the one thing missing I will be really disappointed if they've decided to cut.

Actually, those are very viable possibilities, and would make sense.

This coming Sunday at Craster's: I think Bran and Jon will be a near miss. But I do think it would be perfect if Jojen gets to speak with Jon in the confusion, and tell him to his face because he sees/senses what Jon is, but doesn't have a clue. He could also get Jon's connection to Arya, and see that Arya is as well, (how cool would it be to discover Lyanna was as well.... )

I think the biggest disappointment would be for Arya/Nymeria not dragging LS out of the river.... and we meet LS after all the magic happens to her, and we end up having it told to us next season by Thoros & Beric.

I do think they've set up this season for Jon & Arya warging quite effectively - both the Bran warging Summer sequences have been very direct and clear - we could have another one of those moments, only it's Jon and/or Arya waking from them and being shocked out of their minds.

It would be perfect for Arya this season in ep10 - Nymeria drags LS out of the river, and when she's scarred off by Thoros and Beric, it's Arya who wakes up - shocking the audience - then we straight into LS's rez - and it's the end of the season.

If that happened, they could awaken Jon next season so it's not too all at once.

Still - I just want them to get to it already, and not skip it. It seems too big a part of their characters and story arcs to cut. (I hope.)

If Jon has any hope of surviving the ADWD cliffhanger, they're going to haveto get to his warging ability eventually.

Me personally, I'm in the camp that wants Jon to stay dead -- not only would it create endless implications and start yet more bad blood between Stannis and the Night's Watch, to me, the biggest tragedy ever written would be if Jon never got to learn who his parents were. Granted, we could, but him as a character dying before it's revealed, is justthe kind of heartbreak and tragedy George would love to inflict on us.

That's just good writing, in my opinion. Jon should stay dead. If he returns, let it be a wight, not an Other. I'd even accept that, as his undead mindlessness wouldnt comprehend information granted to him.

[Tixu Oty]

I do think they've set up this season for Jon & Arya warging quite effectively - both the Bran warging Summer sequences have been very direct and clear - we could have another one of those moments, only it's Jon and/or Arya waking from them and being shocked out of their minds.

It would be perfect for Arya this season in ep10 - Nymeria drags LS out of the river, and when she's scarred off by Thoros and Beric, it's Arya who wakes up - shocking the audience - then we straight into LS's rez - and it's the end of the season.

I was very much hoping for a similar scene, but in episode 1 or 2. I think last episode a character mentioned (Cersei to Jaime??? can't remember) that it's been weeks since the red wedding. There's no way the writers would allow Cat to have stayed in the rivers that long, and we know they don't do flashbacks... So I'm pretty sure we won't see that now.

As for Jon and/or Arya waking from wolf dreams, it would be awesome indeed. But I can't imagine D & D wanting to shock us with that info. I'd say they'd rather hint on it lightly for a time till it becomes semi-obvious. Only after that, do I see them showing us the wolf dream.

[CandleWisps]

As for Jon and/or Arya waking from wolf dreams, it would be awesome indeed. But I can't imagine D & D wanting to shock us with that info. I'd say they'd rather hint on it lightly for a time till it becomes semi-obvious. Only after that, do I see them showing us the wolf dream.

Agreed, thats why I'm guessing they are going to wait until after possibly addressing the subject with Bran, informing viewers that it can be an inherited trait in Starks, then slowly branching out in future seasons to Jon and Arya

[doghouse]

Season 1 episode 1

I can't believe people are sleeping on this answer!

[Tixu Oty]

Agreed, thats why I'm guessing they are going to wait until after possibly addressing the subject with Bran, informing viewers that it can be an inherited trait in Starks, then slowly branching out in future seasons to Jon and Arya

That's interesting. How do you see that going down?

I can't believe people are sleeping on this answer!

? The direwolves have really been played down a lot in the show. I don't think Jory or anybody ever mentioned that the old gods sent them or whatever. I would say viewers think they're just cute pets at this point, which is a shame really. The way I understand this topic, is since the show hasn't done the direwolves/wargs justice so far compared to what it is in the books, how do they go from there?

[Talking Hodor]

Well yeah - imagine a trained assassin who can also warg. Wow. ;)

Nobody suspects the kitty-cat. Hell Arya could pop in to visit Cersei at the top of a long flight of steps, spook the bejesus out of her, and warg Ser Pounce into standing right behind Cersei so that she falls down the steps.

What got me in this episode was how the hell did those NW mutineers catch a Ghost, and why would they give a dam about a Direwolf? Does it feed them?No!Does it protect them? No, difficult to protect anyone in a cage. However I dont think we are going to see Jon ever have warging abilities, unless he does warg into Ghost. But I think that may confuse the unsullied as look he havnt seen Arya warg at all in the series, cause then they will say why cant Sansa warg into animals. So think they will make only Bran have 'magical abilities' from the Starks

I think they're keeping him in order to have something to eat once Craster's larder runs dry. Or he had been in that cage since they were on friendly terms with Craster, and nobody has the balls to let him out now. Or they're trying to tame him into doing their bidding. He is a wight killing machine after all. Or, they think Jon's gone over to the wildling side and are trying to remain on his good side by not killing Snoopy... I mean Ghost.

[Talking Hodor]

Just because their father would know doesn't mean they would. It's a pretty big deal. Ned never even told Jon, so it's not hard to imagine it's less important in the Reed family.

Jojen can read minds. Even if his father intended to keep the knowledge from him, he may have revealed it in his sleep. Also, I have a feeling that Howland Reed tells his children a LOT more than Ned Stark told his. They know about the tournament and Lyanna. They live on a floating castle surrounded by alligators and Vietcong highly trained Crannogmen and have never been conquered. I think they're pretty safe.

[Slade7]

That's interesting. How do you see that going down?

? The direwolves have really been played down a lot in the show. I don't think Jory or anybody ever mentioned that the old gods sent them or whatever. I would say viewers think they're just cute pets at this point, which is a shame really. The way I understand this topic, is since the show hasn't done the direwolves/wargs justice so far compared to what it is in the books, how do they go from there?

Season 2 beyond the wall was awful for us book readers . I love the show but I don't think warging is gna fill that hole. Im happy where this season seems to be headed :)

[Slade7]

can't remember which seasons which Actually

[Bowen]

...it seems pretty important that Jon gain the ability to warg in the stories. I don't see how they can cut it. Is there a source?

To me, Bran being so near to Jon seems the perfect opportunity to awaken that ability, but we will see.

Well let's just see how utterly stupid D&D can actually get because if they don't have Jon as a warg then they take so much of his story ie him being part Stark albeit not from Eddard,I must admit I did wonder about this as he was having wolf dreams in the books way before here,hasn't GRRM confirmed that all of the Stark kids are Wargs?

Some of it looks to me like they are trying to take credit for their own writing instead of Martins,it's no coincidence that the first series that stayed true to the story was the best,it's not rocket science is it?GRRM story can't be improved on so why change it?

[NaarioDaharis]

I love all the little pretentious things we on the forum say.

Let's make a list!

1. I don't see how...

2. I cannot imagine where this is going

3. I don't know how they're going to get the characters out of this.

4. You can't say....

5. I don't see how you think that...

6. I don't see where you're getting this from...

and so on! I'll add to it as I see more.

[Moët]

I love all the little pretentious things we on the forum say.

Let's make a list!

1. I don't see how...

2. I cannot imagine where this is going

3. I don't know how they're going to get the characters out of this.

4. You can't say....

5. I don't see how you think that...

6. I don't see where you're getting this from...

and so on! I'll add to it as I see more.

As long as you supply champagne too.

[Blazfemur]

? The direwolves have really been played down a lot in the show. I don't think Jory or anybody ever mentioned that the old gods sent them or whatever. I would say viewers think they're just cute pets at this point, which is a shame really. The way I understand this topic, is since the show hasn't done the direwolves/wargs justice so far compared to what it is in the books, how do they go from there?

can unsullied even name the direwolves? with the exception of Ghost, and Summer, since theyre sooo apparent, what's Arya's wolf's name? and Sansa's? Robb's? Rickon?

I know we know. Next episode, here's an experiment, trivia the people you watch it with. See if they can answer. I bet they can't. And I know I'm right :)

[Areo Speedwagon]

I think it's one of those things that you don't introduce until it becomes necessary to the plot. It hasn't been necessary to the plot yet for Jon OR Arya. It's not so much about magic, it's about keeping the story as simple and streamlined as possible. There's only an hour to tell several different concurrent stories, and if you try to push too much too soon, you drive viewers away. Arya's not even left for Braavos yet, and Jon's warging abilities were not even important until he became LC in the books, so I don't think there's any rush.

much this.

They've been distancing Jon from Ghost since last season. While he's with the Wildlings Ghost is nowhere to be seen and not until this season do we even find out that Ghost is 'imprisoned' all this time at Craster's (which to me seems stupid). In the books Jon has a very close bond with Ghost (as did most all of the children to their wolves) - seems pretty lame they've not even mentioned Ghost all this time or had Jon think about or mention him. This distance, to me, shouts loud and clear there's no warging bond between them, not even in dreams.

In the books Jon was the one most often denying his warg abilities even when Sixskin tells him to his face what he is.

I don't know why they want to drop it for Arya and Jon - it really helped define their "Stark side" whereas Sansa and Robb seemed so much more Tully and less warg-like.

This too.

Though I think it also has to do with the visual medium of storytelling that has to happen in television. Maybe I'm giving D&D too much credit, but I think it's thematic that Ghost is locked up. The Direwolves represent The North, and the Starks themselves. Having Ghost in a cage is maybe symbolic of Jon denying his Stark-ness in favor of the Nights Watch. Similar to Arya, who has been without her connection to the North and her Stark-ness, Needle, until very recently. I think the distinction is important though. Jon chose to enter the NW and put his Stark-ness behind him. Arya's situation was out of her control and so was Needle (and therefore her Stark-ness and further her identity) being taken.

I think maybe Jon will get reunited with Ghost next episode (or later) and, as he seems to be growing into himself very nicely this season, will learn that saying an oath doesn't un-make who you are. You can't "lock up" your identity without consequence; that foresaking your claim to lands, titles, and not fathering children doesn't negate the lessons you learned from your family or your childhood experiences. That sort of legalistic interpretation of the NW vows is pretty immature, but very much in line with an angry, bastard, adolescent Jon Snow. But now he's growing up. We may (again only visually) see Jon accept his childhood and Stark-ness (through the Wildlings' seeing Jon as "The Ned's" bastard) and realize it only makes him more complete. So when Stannis offers him Winterfell, he can deny it for the right reasons, with a full understanding of the offer and the reasons for his decision.

[CandleWisps]

That's interesting. How do you see that going down?

I see it most likely going down one of two ways: either through Jojen or Bloodraven.

To individually introduce warging in either Jon or Arya might take up too much time in the show, or it could confuse Unsullied audiences who arent aware that warging can be an inherited trait. As book readers, we know the importance of the blood in the Starks and their connection to their direwolves, but Unsullied might not exactly to jump to that conclusion. It makes more sense, to me at least, that D&D will want to somehow include in the narrative that Bran's warging into Summer isn't completely unique, and it fits the pacing of the show better to have an explanation to Jon/Arya's abilities before they actually mature into their power.

So to me, it seems more likely that either Jojen or Bloodraven will inform Bran more in-depth about the origins of his powers before we see Arya and Jon use them. Since the finale is titled the Children, I'm assuming we meet Bloodraven and the CotF there, which means after the escape from Craster's Keep we have episodes 6,7, and 8 (9 I think will be strictly reserved for the Battle at the Wall) of possible traveling time for Bran and Co to do nothing but talk. It would be a perfect opportunity for Jojen to inform Bran that warging comes from his blood. However, if this doesn't happen, and assuming D&D don't choose to cut Jon/Arya abilities (which I don't think they will, theyre too important), then this information will likely be presented to audiences through Bloodravens tutelage in Season 5.

It just seems to fit the pacing of the show IMO to already have Unsullied audiences prepared for the possibility that the other Starks are magical before hitting them with a oh-what-the-fuck-Jon's-eyes-are-white-what-is-happening-omg-magic that could confuse them