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Marriage Consummation? (Book spoilers)


Whipsy

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Nothing changes. Hell she could sleep with Tommen after the wedding and no big deal. The scandal and treason come with a charge of losing her maidenhead before being with him. So Pycelle knows she didn't come a "virgin" and the same Cersei questioning happens and bam, easy way to start the conviction train. They go to the High Septon, the same things ensue.



Look I get people always complaining about book deviations, I do it myself, but come fucking on, this is the easiest to happen later other than Lady Stoneheart you self righteous wanks. :pimp:


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Also is it possible D & D didn't want to have such a young guy consumate the marriage but are happy for the tv viewers to know that while allowing the characters or at least some of them to believe it?



Poor Tommen being a witness at the trial and due to being manipulated by "our little secret" is a key defense witness for Marg.


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Nothing changes. Hell she could sleep with Tommen after the wedding and no big deal. The scandal and treason come with a charge of losing her maidenhead before being with him. So Pycelle knows she didn't come a "virgin" and the same Cersei questioning happens and bam, easy way to start the conviction train. They go to the High Septon, the same things ensue.

Look I get people always complaining about book deviations, I do it myself, but come fucking on, this is the easiest to happen later other than Lady Stoneheart you self righteous wanks. :pimp:

From my perspective, as the original poster, it wasn't a complaint. I wasn't sure so I was curious and asked for some opinions. I didn't know if Margaery would have been examined by Pycelle prior to her marriage (though maybe it happened before her wedding to Joffrey) and therefore after consummation there would be no proof so I was wondering if people thought they might go a different angle, that's all. Though I could easily see how the adultery angle could still play out. I have my own opinions but it's no great, "Hey! Why the fuck is it happening like this? I hate this show! I'm so confused...." Just simple curiosity. Sorry for any self-righteousness.

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From my perspective, as the original poster, it wasn't a complaint. I wasn't sure so I was curious and asked for some opinions. I didn't know if Margaery would have been examined by Pycelle prior to her marriage (though maybe it happened before her wedding to Joffrey) and therefore after consummation there would be no proof so I was wondering if people thought they might go a different angle, that's all. Though I could easily see how the adultery angle could still play out. I have my own opinions but it's no great, "Hey! Why the fuck is it happening like this? I hate this show! I'm so confused...." Just simple curiosity. Sorry for any self-righteousness.

Wasn't after you Whipsy, should have elaborated. It's several posters after and the usual debate.

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So with the reveal that it was the Olenna and Littlefinger tag team that are behind the murder of Joffrey why did Olenna not wait until the marriage was consumated?

Why risk Margaery getting pregnant with that demon spawn? Worse, what if he was abusive even on their wedding night?

I think her timing was perfect... they're married but no worry of harm to Margaery if he dies immediately. Desperate measures for desperate times. Let's not forget who was pulling the strings behind Olenna's motives anyways. Littlefinger has a way of convincing people that what they want is most important even if it's what he wants instead.

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Why risk Margaery getting pregnant with that demon spawn? Worse, what if he was abusive even on their wedding night?

I think her timing was perfect... they're married but no worry of harm to Margaery if he dies immediately. Desperate measures for desperate times. Let's not forget who was pulling the strings behind Olenna's motives anyways. Littlefinger has a way of convincing people that what they want is most important even if it's what he wants instead.

This.

And if Margaery spends only that one night with Joff, and doesn't get pregnant, it would ruin her shot at the Queenship with the Lannisters.

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Why risk Margaery getting pregnant with that demon spawn? Worse, what if he was abusive even on their wedding night?

I think her timing was perfect... they're married but no worry of harm to Margaery if he dies immediately. Desperate measures for desperate times. Let's not forget who was pulling the strings behind Olenna's motives anyways. Littlefinger has a way of convincing people that what they want is most important even if it's what he wants instead.

Would her getting pregnant not strengthen her position as queen? One night of Joffrey surely isn't as bad as the marriage being annulled and her losing her Queenship, even Marg isn't that precious to Olenna all that matters is the game and I'm not convinced the timing was a smart move in that respect.

This.

And if Margaery spends only that one night with Joff, and doesn't get pregnant, it would ruin her shot at the Queenship with the Lannisters.

She already was a Queen with the Lannisters why risk losing what she already had for the same thing again with Tommen with no gaurantee she will be allowed to marry him?

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Why risk Margaery getting pregnant with that demon spawn? Worse, what if he was abusive even on their wedding night?

I think her timing was perfect... they're married but no worry of harm to Margaery if he dies immediately. Desperate measures for desperate times. Let's not forget who was pulling the strings behind Olenna's motives anyways. Littlefinger has a way of convincing people that what they want is most important even if it's what he wants instead.

With Littlefinger the man behind it it probably explains the timing as it creates more chaos.

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The Margaery/Tommen scene was meant to be creepy in a similar way to Tyrion or Littlefinger with Sansa. I think that because it's not a girl who's been manipulated people are being way too lenient and deducing things that are not meant to be there. He's still a kid.



Tommen likes Margaery in the books a lot, with an older Tommen they'll maybe play more of a crush on his side, but it's all still going to be about Cersei vs Marge.


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Would her getting pregnant not strengthen her position as queen? One night of Joffrey surely isn't as bad as the marriage being annulled and her losing her Queenship, even Marg isn't that precious to Olenna all that matters is the game and I'm not convinced the timing was a smart move in that respect.

She already was a Queen with the Lannisters why risk losing what she already had for the same thing again with Tommen with no gaurantee she will be allowed to marry him?

I think Olenna loves her granddaughter a lot as she's poured all of her energy and work into grooming her to be the perfect Queen. She's not going to risk her that far - nor would she want a Lannister spawn in the family. After it was revealed by Sansa just how terrible he really is (I'm sure they know about the prostitutes / Roz incident too) there's just no way Olenna is going to risk Margaery consummating with Joffrey at that point IMO. No, he probably wasn't going to kill her, but who knows what he might have done to celebrate his wedding night - Joffrey was completely off the hook by that point.

Another angle you can look at is Littlefinger's motives for having Joffrey die at the wedding instead of afterwards. LF wants chaos because it creates opportunities. What's more chaotic than having the king die right there in front of his entire wedding party and guests? Now the entire realm is in shock either celebrating or questioning who is going to be in power. Most know so long as Tywin's in charge, not much changes but still - opportunities abound now and that was Littlefinger's entire motivation. If he can get Margaery (and the Tyrells) squarely in a seat of power then he himself holds a great deal of power. With Joffrey, as he said to Sansa in the ship scene, he's not a very good or predictable ally to have regardless of his evilness. LF doesn't care that he was cruel, he cares that he was unmanageable.

Littlefinger's chaos speech explains exactly why Joffrey had to die in such a dramatic way.

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I don't think it's going to be a problem. It's unlikely they'll make Tommen f*** Marg, and, if they do, they can still make her cheat him. ShowMarg is quite different from BookMarg, I don't see her not having any sex untill Tommen can give it to her.


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why would they have them consummate the marriage? they don't even get married in the book, why would they in the show?

i dont understand where you people get this information from

Let me guess, you hate AFFC and have never actually read it? Yes, they get married in AFFC. Cersei gets barley-able-to-stand drunk and Jaime is creeped out by her burning the Tower of the Hand after the reception. He is commanded by Cersei to stay inside the "Honeymoonsuite" and oversee Marg and Tommen not doing anything but play with kittens.

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I think the fact that she kissed him on the forehead likely shows that they won't have them sleep together. Heck, they weren't even comfortable letting her kiss him, haha. If I had to place a bet, it would be on the story line still revolving around Cersei trying to prove Margery isn't a virgin.



At this point, I don't believe she's slept with anyone in the show, so heck.. she might actually be a virgin still. (though those eyes say otherwise!) :D


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I think the fact that she kissed him on the forehead likely shows that they won't have them sleep together. Heck, they weren't even comfortable letting her kiss him, haha. If I had to place a bet, it would be on the story line still revolving around Cersei trying to prove Margery isn't a virgin.

At this point, I don't believe she's slept with anyone in the show, so heck.. she might actually be a virgin still. (though those eyes say otherwise!) :D

Ehhhh, rewatch 3x07, lol. "Yes sweet girl. My mother taught me."

But agreed. She's definitely not going to sleep with Tommen.

Would her getting pregnant not strengthen her position as queen? One night of Joffrey surely isn't as bad as the marriage being annulled and her losing her Queenship, even Marg isn't that precious to Olenna all that matters is the game and I'm not convinced the timing was a smart move in that respect.

She already was a Queen with the Lannisters why risk losing what she already had for the same thing again with Tommen with no gaurantee she will be allowed to marry him?

The whole point is the Tyrells don't want to be tied to the Lannisters if things go poorly. Marg's maidenhead is worth a lot, and offing Joffrey/having her marry Tommen ensures that she'll still be in a Queenish position, but have a few years to get out of it if the tides turn. The Tyrells are not the most loyal bedfellows.

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The Margaery/Tommen scene was meant to be creepy in a similar way to Tyrion or Littlefinger with Sansa. I think that because it's not a girl who's been manipulated people are being way too lenient and deducing things that are not meant to be there. He's still a kid.

Tommen likes Margaery in the books a lot, with an older Tommen they'll maybe play more of a crush on his side, but it's all still going to be about Cersei vs Marge.

After seeing all the posts and thinking about it, this seems pretty correct. I wasn't quite sure how old he's supposed to be now in the show and there was the fact that Tywin expected Tyrion to consummate his marriage with 13 year old Sansa, so I didn't really know what was up for grabs concerning sexual situations and teenagers but I think that you're probably right and they will still keep the marriage unconsummated. Also, thanks for everyone's opinions and ideas, it's really great to be able to finally discuss such a great series. My boyfriend is so sick of hearing about it.

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After seeing all the posts and thinking about it, this seems pretty correct. I wasn't quite sure how old he's supposed to be now in the show and there was the fact that Tywin expected Tyrion to consummate his marriage with 13 year old Sansa, so I didn't really know what was up for grabs concerning sexual situations and teenagers but I think that you're probably right and they will still keep the marriage unconsummated. Also, thanks for everyone's opinions and ideas, it's really great to be able to finally discuss such a great series. My boyfriend is so sick of hearing about it.

FYI the GoT wiki says he's about 12 in S4 (despite being 8 in S1, but who's counting). I think it matters not...they're going to remain unconsummated. We just may see less of Marg's babysitting wiles that she uses in the book and more of her feminine wiles.

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Would her getting pregnant not strengthen her position as queen? One night of Joffrey surely isn't as bad as the marriage being annulled and her losing her Queenship, even Marg isn't that precious to Olenna all that matters is the game and I'm not convinced the timing was a smart move in that respect.

Actually, I think the main difference between the Lannisters and the Tyrell is that, while both families are ruthless polictical schemers who are intentionally active in the Game of Thrones, the Tyrells do actually love each other instead of trying to backstab each other every day. Think of it this way: If you plant two roses next to each other, they grow and intertwine making it even harder to pluck them without drawing blood. Lions... if you put two male lions in the same pride, they'll be at each other's throats and the winner will eat the loser's babies.

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