Marriage Consummation? (Book spoilers)

[CandleWisps]

Actually, I think the main difference between the Lannisters and the Tyrell is that, while both families are ruthless polictical schemers who are intentionally active in the Game of Thrones, the Tyrells do actually love each other instead of trying to backstab each other every day. Think of it this way: If you plant two roses next to each other, they grow and intertwine making it even harder to pluck them without drawing blood. Lions... if you put two male lions in the same pride, they'll be at each other's throats and the winner will eat the loser's babies.

This perfectly articulated my thoughts :thumbsup:

[juanml82]

It may happen off-screen and the accusation remains an accusation of adultery. Or it may not happen because Margery doesn't desire him, thinks he can better manipulate him by keeping him wanting and Tommen isn't assertive enough besides being nervous and unsure due his age.

That said, I'm trying to imagine a reason why my twelve years old self wouldn't have wanted to bang Natalie Dorner and I'm coming up with nothing.

[King Tam Stark]

Another angle you can look at is Littlefinger's motives for having Joffrey die at the wedding instead of afterwards. LF wants chaos because it creates opportunities. What's more chaotic than having the king die right there in front of his entire wedding party and guests? Now the entire realm is in shock either celebrating or questioning who is going to be in power. Most know so long as Tywin's in charge, not much changes but still - opportunities abound now and that was Littlefinger's entire motivation. If he can get Margaery (and the Tyrells) squarely in a seat of power then he himself holds a great deal of power. With Joffrey, as he said to Sansa in the ship scene, he's not a very good or predictable ally to have regardless of his evilness. LF doesn't care that he was cruel, he cares that he was unmanageable.

Littlefinger's chaos speech explains exactly why Joffrey had to die in such a dramatic way.

This perfectly explains in alot more detail my comment in post No. 30.

[King Tam Stark]

why would they have them consummate the marriage? they don't even get married in the book, why would they in the show?

i dont understand where you people get this information from

I'm talking about both book and tv material now that the tv show has revealed Olenna was definitely involved its moved both on.

[Iron Maiden Islands]

I think it will play like this:

Tywin arranges the betrothal of Tommen to Margery.

After Tywin dies, Cersei will tell Tommen "Good news, you don't have to marry that wicked little bitch from Highgarden!"

Tommen says "Well, I like Margery and I'm the King now so yeah I'm actually still going to go ahead and marry her when I come of age."

This is when Cersei will start plotting against Margery. Not sure how they do it with the Kettleblacks not being in the show, but they'll figure out something.

[Envie]

I think it will play like this:

Tywin arranges the betrothal of Tommen to Margery.

After Tywin dies, Cersei will tell Tommen "Good news, you don't have to marry that wicked little bitch from Highgarden!"

Tommen says "Well, I like Margery and I'm the King now so yeah I'm actually still going to go ahead and marry her when I come of age."

This is when Cersei will start plotting against Margery. Not sure how they do it with the Kettleblacks not being in the show, but they'll figure out something.

This is a good guess as to how they will play it out. Margaery and Tommen will keep their 'little secret' (which will remain innocent, no sex) and that's the power Margaery will keep over Cersei for their ongoing battle to come.

[Guardian of the Neck]

I can only think of a top from season 1 : stick'em with the pointy end XD

[Skeksi]

So with the reveal that it was the Olenna and Littlefinger tag team that are behind the murder of Joffrey why did Olenna not wait until the marriage was consumated?

Given that a big part of the reason that Margaery was eligible for marriage to Joffrey in the first place is that her marriage to Renly was (apparently) unconsummated, I suspect because it makes it easier to arrange a betrothal between Tommen and Margaery if she doesn't sleep with Joffrey first. Killing Joffrey after the marriage is consummated only benefits Margaery, and the Tyrells as a whole, if she gets pregnant, and how long do they wait? The chances of him impregnating her on the first night of their marriage are slim, even assuming that both of them are fully fertile and able to have kids, so how long does the Queen of Thorns let her granddaughter stay married to Joffrey before offing him? Hell, Jon Arryn was in his 50s before he had his first living child, and on wife number 3. Olenna isn't Tywin or Littlefinger, she is a very adept politician indeed, and very ambitious, but she seems to genuinely care about her family members- some of them, anyway- rather than simply the family name, or playing the game for it's own sake. The show seems to confirm that a big part of Olenna's motivation in poisoning Joffrey was looking out for her own.

Looking at a historical parallel, Katherine of Aragon originally married Arthur Tudor. After he died, she married his brother, later Henry VIII, but it took years before that came about - several reasons for this, but partly because she had been married to his brother and there was some discussion over whether Katherine and Arthur's marriage was consummated. A man marrying his brother's widow was considered to be going against the church, but if their marriage was unconsummated, then one could argue that they were not truly married, and thus Katherine would be a suitable bride for Henry. Now, off the top of my head I don't know if there is a similar law in Westeros- indeed, the faith of the 7 seems a lot less powerful (until AFFC) than the church in mediaeval Europe, possibly because there are several other religions in Westeros that they have to coexist with. But given the value put on a woman's "purity" in this society, I would expect that a widow who has been bedded by her previous husband is considered a less suitable potential queen than another noble born virgin. The Tyrells might have still been able to wrangle a marriage with Tommen- there are some doubts about Margaery's "official virginity", after all, even before she marries Joffrey, and the Tyrells are still important allies, but why risk it for a possible pregnancy and almost certain abuse for Margaery?