(book spoilers) How I would show the audience Tysha in the show

[Nordeast]

The first scene of an episode would start out with a flashback to a young Tyrion meeting Tysha on the road, falling in love, and marrying her. Then it would show the ending (unfortunately it would have another you know what so the tumbler and salon activists will probably be calling for it's cancellation), then it would fade into Tyrion sitting in his cell with a tear on his cheek, right before someone comes in and tells him that Shae has been found and will testify at his trial.

[jewelybrook]

I have been thinking about Tysha too. I think Shae could sub in for her. Shae actually gets away and Tyrion heads off to find her. No testimony and she doesn't die. "Where does Shae (the whore) go?"

[Chebyshov]

The first scene of an episode would start out with a flashback to a young Tyrion meeting Tysha on the road, falling in love, and marrying her. Then it would show the ending (unfortunately it would have another you know what so the tumbler and salon activists will probably be calling for it's cancellation), then it would fade into Tyrion sitting in his cell with a tear on his cheek, right before someone comes in and tells him that Shae has been found and will testify at his trial.

Why do we need to see Tysha? We already got the full story in Season 1, and she's been mentioned/alluded to a few times since.

[salmonsnake]

Have they ever utilized flashbacks on the show?

[Chebyshov]

Have they ever utilized flashbacks on the show?

Never. They filmed a flashback of Aerys killing Brandon and Rickard, but decided to exclude it.

[HairGrowsBack]

Tysha so far has pretty much been a symbol and an explanation of Tyrion's issues. The character in itself isn't important, it's what she represents for Tyrion that matters, and I doubt we will ever see her in any form whatsoever (as it's been speculated by some).

So no there's no need to have a flashbach or anything of that sort. Tyrion's telling the story in season 1 and the conversation with Tywin prior to his death is enough.

[Pod The Impaler]

Tysha so far has pretty much been a symbol and an explanation of Tyrion's issues. The character in itself isn't important, it's what she represents for Tyrion that matters, and I doubt we will ever see her in any form whatsoever (as it's been speculated by some).

So no there's no need to have a flashbach or anything of that sort. Tyrion's telling the story in season 1 and the conversation with Tywin prior to his death is enough.

I agree. Tysha is the biggest (but not only) reason why Tyrion's so messed up inside. Tysha cannot be Shae, but that's not to say her story should not figure into how the Shae situation is resolved. Tyrion is not a "light" character, he is someone who's good and bad sides are routinely in conflict; he's psychologically broken, and has been for many years.

Perhaps if Shae were to find out the real role Tyrion had re: Tysha, this may cause her later behavior at the trial & beyond. I am waiting to see if the show is willing to "go there", because that would be very harsh territory, even for HBO.

[Annara Snow]

Tysha so far has pretty much been a symbol and an explanation of Tyrion's issues. The character in itself isn't important, it's what she represents for Tyrion that matters, and I doubt we will ever see her in any form whatsoever (as it's been speculated by some).

So no there's no need to have a flashbach or anything of that sort. Tyrion's telling the story in season 1 and the conversation with Tywin prior to his death is enough.

I don't think that we need to see a flashback, but I hate the idea of Tysha being nothing but a symbol for Tyrion. I really hope (and always have) that Martin will either show us or at least tell us what happened to her afterwards; my preference is that she actually shows up. I always wished we could see the story from her perspective; but even with the little we get to know of her, through Tyrion's POV, makes her a really tragic character.

(book spoilers for A Storm of Swords all through the end)

Just imagine,you're a 14-year old girl (in the book, they didn't specify her age on the show, but she would probably be a little bit older to match show Tyrion's age of 16), a commoner left orphaned and alone (even if she had been a prostitute, which she was not, would that have been something bad for a young girl who likely had no means of survival?), with no one to help you and the road full of men who want to rape you. But then you meet those two highborn guys who are, incredibly, actually

nice to you and genuinely want to help you. (Even more unlikely - they're Lannisters, sons of the high lord who's ruling Westerlands, who you would never normally hope to ever talk to....Tysha even has the Lannister-like name on "Ty". Is this some fairytale?) The older one, a handsome knight, genuinely protects you as knights as supposed to do and chases away the would-be rapists. The younger one, a boy of your age - not what most people would consider attractive, but sweet, smart and funny - takes you to an inn and buys you a dinner, and you eat, talk and laugh together, and have a wonderful time - and you end up in bed and you lose your virginity to him. But he's not trying to take advantage of you, he really loves you and wants to marry you! You get married and spend two weeks of happiness and young love all on your own. (I was convinced that Tysha really loved Tyrion since his flashbacks in his last POV chapter in ACOK; she seemed completely genuine, just like a teenage girl in love, and very much unlike Shae and her interactions with Tyrion.) Everything is too good to be true.

Until the dream turns into nightmare when your father-in-law, the mighty Tywin Lannister finds out. He declares that, as a commoner, you cannot be his son's wife, you must be a whore. And then... I can't imagine what it would be like to be gang raped by some 20 men. And that all happens to a 14-year old who's lost her virginity two weeks ago. To add insult to injury, they throw coins at her after raping her, to drive it home that she's considered a whore. In the end, her father-in-law forces her husband to rape her, too, to make sure their relationship is forever destroyed. And she's given a gold coin for being his "whore", and only then sent away.

How did she survive and cope with such a terrible trauma? How did she make a living afterwards? Is she still alive? Has she emotionally recovered? I want to know these things. That girl deserves to have her story told.

And really, we do need more small folk perspectives in the story., especially small folk women.

[HairGrowsBack]

@ Annar Snow : Don't get me wrong, I'm really interested in what happened to her (and think it would be nice to find it out), and I'm definitely empathetic towards her and what she's been through.

However, yes, I don't think GRRM meant for her to be thought outside of Tyrion's narrative (not unlike Shae). It can be seen as yet another case of 'women suffering for the benefit of male tears', which it is, but it being Tyrion's story and Tysha having nothing to do with other aspects of the narration lead to her being under developed.

That's the problem : having small folk pov would be nice, but completely unrelated to the general narrative, as they never mingle with highborn characters, who comprise most of the main characters.

If we ever 'see' her, all I hope is that she isn't getting back in any way with Tyrion, that would be just plain wrong, imo.

[acosta]

She's an interesting character for sure, but at some point, you really do just need to let Rosencrantz and Guildenstern disappear into the periphery where they belong. You can't fully explore and develop every single minor character. The story is bloated enough as is. It's time to go ahead and kill off a few more POVs and tighten the focus. He already has to resolve the major storylines that matter: Bran's continued training and the answer to what his purpose is, the resolution to Littlefinger's plot to retake the north in Sansa's name, the battle for the north between Stannis and Bolton and Davos returning with Rickon, Cersei's trial and the future of the crown, Aegon's attack through the Stormlands, where the Martells are going to finally find an alliance, whether or not the dragonhorn works, is Daenerys ever heading west? Those are just big plot points, and he has barely even begun to introduce the single more important plotline: the attack of the Others. Then you have a whole bunch of loose ends to tie up that probably matter but we don't know why, like what the hell is a Faceless Man doing in the Citadel? Why is Tom O'Sevenstrings in Riverrun pretending to serve the Lannisters and Freys? Then he has to resolve all the storylines that probably don't matter but we want to know anyway just because the characters has been around forever and we want to know what happens, like is Stoneheart going to kill Jaime Lannister? What becomes of all the red wedding hostages? Is Randyl Tarly up to no good?

And frankly, even Tyrion himself is not a player any more. The Second Sons were turning for Daenery with or without him. It's not clear he is still going to have any meaningful impact on a major plotline at this point. We just want to know what happens to him because he's an original POV and popular with the readers, but he probably could have been executed back in Storm of Swords without it making any difference to who ultimately sits the throne, who ultimately controls Winterfell, and whether or not the Wall fails and whether humanity survives winter and the Others. That's the story at this point, not what becomes of Tyrion's ex-wife from twenty years ago. There's already way too much to wrap up, and as far as we know, GRRM is already still introducing new POVs and new geographical settings. It has to end eventually.

[Seneti]

I don't think we'll get flashbacks. I do, however believe that we will get a conversation between Tyrion/Jaime that has Tyrion mention that Shae betrayed him, that he shouldn't have trusted her because she was a whore and that he should have learned that lesson when his "whore wife" lied to him all those years ago and got raped and exiled for it. Cue Jaime confessing that Tysha was no whore and really did love him, as he did in the books. Cue Tyrion losing it completely, ranting at Jaime and going to kill his father. As he did in the books.

[WTFSalami]

There's no reason why we need to see Tysha. This show is already the most un-subtle form of story-telling in TV history, we don't need to add Lost-style flashbacks to it.

He already told the story to us, that's all we need to know.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

They only need to give us a bit reminder. And Bronn knows about it. Bronn can mention Jaime about Tyrion's little wife like he already mentioned the Combat at the Eyrie and Jaime realises how it has affected Tyrion. During the escape, he can mention it

"Tyrion... your wife"

"What about her?"

"She wasn't a whore"

"What?"

"Father told me to lie..." blah blah.

[Koi No Yokan]

The first scene of an episode would start out with a flashback to a young Tyrion meeting Tysha on the road, falling in love, and marrying her. Then it would show the ending (unfortunately it would have another you know what so the tumbler and salon activists will probably be calling for it's cancellation), then it would fade into Tyrion sitting in his cell with a tear on his cheek, right before someone comes in and tells him that Shae has been found and will testify at his trial.

Sorry, but that sounds terrible. Hate the idea of a flashback (to a story we've already been told), the melodramatic fade to Tyrion crying, and Shae's testimony not being a surprise.

They only need to give us a bit reminder. And Bronn knows about it. Bronn can mention Jaime about Tyrion's little wife like he already mentioned the Combat at the Eyrie and Jaime realises how it has affected Tyrion. During the escape, he can mention it

"Tyrion... your wife"

"What about her?"

"She wasn't a whore"

"What?"

"Father told me to lie..." blah blah.

Exactly this.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

All you need to do is have a conversation between Jaime and Tyrion that's like the one in the book.

[MsLibby]

Part of me thinks Shae will take her place in at least part of the story. I can see her being the reason Tyrion has the....dissagreement...with his father at the end of the season.

[Hard Hugh]

I don't think we'll get flashbacks. I do, however believe that we will get a conversation between Tyrion/Jaime that has Tyrion mention that Shae betrayed him, that he shouldn't have trusted her because she was a whore and that he should have learned that lesson when his "whore wife" lied to him all those years ago and got raped and exiled for it. Cue Jaime confessing that Tysha was no whore and really did love him, as he did in the books. Cue Tyrion losing it completely, ranting at Jaime and going to kill his father. As he did in the books.

Agreed I think the story comes out as a conversation between Jamie and Tyrion or Bron and Tyrion.

I do think it likely that Shae

Doesn't meet her demise as she does in the books. The show has really showed her and Tyrion to be different more sympathetic characters. I don't think killing her would acheive the same effect as it did in the book...and the show writers seem unwilling to do anything to demonize Tyrion.

[Newstar]

The no-flashbacks-except-for-Bran rule seems to rule a flashback out for Tyrion, although the writers have made one exception before with seemingly less reason (Sansa's riot dream).

I do think the writers have to find some way of bringing Tysha back into the narrative before Jaime and Tyrion's confrontation, but it seems like a better way to do that would be through dialogue.

...Unless it's revealed that Shae never loved Tyrion, as in the books, the Tysha revelation will hardly pack the same punch for Tyrion. He's hung up in the books on the knowledge that not only did Shae never love him but Tysha did. Tysha then acquires this special status in Tyrion's mind as the only woman who ever truly loved him. With TV Shae, even if she turns on him and betrays him, it seems pretty clear in the show--absent some revelation that she was Tywin's spy or something--she really did love him, to the point where she begged him to run away with her and (unlike Book Shae) seethed with jealousy over his marriage. So it's less "Tysha's the only one who ever loved me" and more "Tysha's the only one who ever loved me, although I guess there's Shae who refused to leave me, who took a humiliating job as a handmaiden just to be with me, who stayed with me in spite of great danger and wouldn't leave until I drove her off using the most insulting, demeaning language I could think of...hmm..."

Even if the Shae/Tyrion relationship is soured from here on in, it seems pretty clear that TV Shae really did love Tyrion and would have gone on loving him until he rejected her in sufficiently stark and hurtful terms. I guess Tyrion could idealize Tysha as the only one who never BETRAYED him, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

The thing about the whitewashing is that both Tyrion and Shae have been whitewashed. Not only does TV Tyrion have to do a 180 to murder Shae in cold blood, but TV Shae has to do a 180 to sell him out at the trial. Sibel Kekilli alluded in an interview as to how they're going to do it (seems like it will be straight-up revenge for betraying and rejecting her--hell hath no fury like a woman scorned--rather than mercenary considerations as in the books), but I like the more nuanced, sympathetic TV Shae, and I hate the idea of her character getting trashed, too.

[Pod The Impaler]

How did she survive and cope with such a terrible trauma? How did she make a living afterwards? Is she still alive? Has she emotionally recovered? I want to know these things. That girl deserves to have her story told.

Alas, I think GRRM might never let us know her fate, because readers imagining it makes it that much worse.

However, as it relates to the show, this would be very difficult to pull off: it either is not revealed to its full and people gloss over it, losing some of Tyrion's complexities in the process, or it is revealed to its full extent and likely causes infinite outrage and becomes character poison where (again) the complexities of Tyrion as a character are lost. There is only a razor's edge of subtlety where one can bring in the real tale of Tysha, with all the great-drama-but-disturbing-as-fuck implications. Can it be done? Well, I am reminded of Apollo 13, where they describe the safe re-entry corridor as follows: if the Earth was a basketball, the re-entry corridor would be no thicker than a sheet of paper. (And yet, they managed it.)

The no-flashbacks-except-for-Bran rule seems to rule a flashback out for Tyrion, although the writers have made one exception before with seemingly less reason (Sansa's riot dream).

I do think the writers have to find some way of bringing Tysha back into the narrative before Jaime and Tyrion's confrontation, but it seems like a better way to do that would be through dialogue.

...Unless it's revealed that Shae never loved Tyrion, as in the books, the Tysha revelation will hardly pack the same punch for Tyrion. He's hung up in the books on the knowledge that not only did Shae never love him but Tysha did. Tysha then acquires this special status in Tyrion's mind as the only woman who ever truly loved him. With TV Shae, even if she turns on him and betrays him, it seems pretty clear in the show--absent some revelation that she was Tywin's spy or something--she really did love him, to the point where she begged him to run away with her and (unlike Book Shae) seethed with jealousy over his marriage. ... Even if the Shae/Tyrion relationship is soured from here on in, it seems pretty clear that TV Shae really did love Tyrion and would have gone on loving him until he rejected her in sufficiently stark and hurtful terms. The thing about the whitewashing is that both Tyrion and Shae have been whitewashed. Not only does TV Tyrion have to do a 180 to murder Shae in cold blood, but TV Shae has to do a 180 to sell him out at the trial.

Yeah, it will be a tough sell if they go through with it for Shae and Tyrion.

If they don't do it (and there's a fair chance they might not), they may have to do some sort of cop-out scenario where she turns but not willingly, and Tyrion (perhaps knowing) does what he does after that to avenge her.

On the other hand, if they do go through with the full "betrayal" scenario I think they can't play it straight-out, like she does it for jealousy alone.

I think there has to be something more - and Shae finding out the whole Tysha story (under manipulative conditions) might just be the thing to push her over the edge. That last detail about Tysha would mean something very different to Shae, if framed the right way (by being mixed with some outright lies about why it took place).

... And then, even if show Tyrion does what book Tyrion does, then it will be very hard to contain the controversy after. It will make the Jaime / Cersei thing seem minor by comparison. HBO would be juggling wildfire.

[Newstar]

The problem is that the writers like going for the shocking turn of events rather than something carefully choreographed beforehand: no escape plan for Sansa at PW or hint that there was anything fishy about her jewelry, no real foreshadowing as to the RW or even any hints that something was off until the doors closed, etc. etc. If they follow the same pattern for Shae, then there will be no whiff of Shae's betrayal until she turns up at the trial to testify against him...which would rule out a scene where she's in prison and Cersei is trying to talk her into testifying.

The other thing about Tyrion/Shae is that the whitewashing is a zero/sum thing, assuming Tyrion still murders Shae. You can't make Shae look better or more sympathetic without making Tyrion look worse for murdering her, and vice versa.