Headey, Coster-Waldau on Sept Scene

[Westeros]

More than a week has passed since “Breaker of Chains” aired to some controversy, all thanks to the sept scene between siblings Cersei and Jaime, a dark moment between them made grotesque by the presence of their dead son’s body in the scene. Outrage was exceptional on many sides as a general opinion formed that what was depicted was a rape scene with Jaime forcing his sister. Matters were thrown into some confusion by certain remarks from director Alex Graves and actor Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, compounded by a very brief remark from executive producer David Benioff in the Inside the Episode featurette which were construed by some as being contradictory.

This week, however, a pair of new interviews with the actors involved in the scene sheds some further light on what they had intended to achieve. Speaking with Sweden’s Expressen newspaper, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau expanded (Google Translate version) on his earlier remarks, speaking forthrightly but with a clear acknowledgment that what viewers took from it was in many cases different from what he, Lena Headey, the director, and the executive producers had intended. Two brief excerpts:

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[Sun]

I hold by what I said on day one. That scene was a fuck-up. The way the director blocked, shot, and edited that scene, along with the script depicted a rape. What they intended is frankly besides the point, what they delivered is what matters.

What I find hard to believe, and quite troubling, is how anyone viewing through the editing process could have possibly believed they were constructing anything but a rape scene.

[Lord Voldemort]

I hold by what I said on day one. That scene was a fuck-up. The way the director blocked, shot, and edited that scene, along with the script depicted a rape. What they intended is frankly besides the point, what they delivered is what matters.

What I find hard to believe, and quite troubling, is how anyone viewing through the editing process could have possibly believed they were constructing anything but a rape scene.

Perhaps they didn't realize how sensitive people are?

[Sun]

Perhaps they didn't realize how sensitive people are?

Perhaps they're too obtuse to recognise a rape when they write it, shoot it, edit it and screen it? Yeah, I'll go with this one.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Perhaps they're too obtuse to recognise a rape when they write it, shoot it, edit it and screen it? Yeah, I'll go with this one.

I subscribe to this:

Perhaps they didn't realize how sensitive people are?

I insist, "rape" or forceful situations aren't uncommon in erotic fiction, either soft or hardcore, and while in GoT there is violence and gore, there is also a lot of sexual and erotic scenes. Some people like to read about them and it's ok. It's fiction and it's not harmful to others. No woman who likes to read about such things is secretly wishing to be rape or think rape is ok. Some other, don't like it. It's also ok. They tried to make a situation that they probably thought people would understand in context and they failed.

Just like they show that in Westeros there is total disdain for the lives of others who don't share the same banners, they also show that sexually, they're even more fucked up. Rape wasn't uncommon in times of war, heck, it wasn't even uncommon in time of peace, because women, specially commoners, were seen as property. Also, many noble men saw any sexual encounter with their wives or mistress as "their right", with some exceptions that were a small bunch.

[Sun]

Excuses, excuses, all of which missing the frelling point.

[Nordeast]

Perhaps they're too obtuse to recognise a rape when they write it, shoot it, edit it and screen it? Yeah, I'll go with this one.

I've seen people arguing on twitter and tumbler that the show adds rape to spice things up, and that the show has very little rape. These same people claim to have read the books. You know the books that had a guy rape a girl in front of her dad and then ask for change because she wasn't worth what he paid for her. That scene might get the show cancelled. (and I think it would be waaaaaaaaay to hard to watch, so I hope to god it doesn't show up)

The world is full of idiot creators (who are apparently blind) and idiot fans who don't seem to know this is a fiction story.

Either way I find it funny that theses new hashtag activists (cancel colbert!!!!) are the new housewives who spent years going after CBS because Janet Jackson's nipple was shown for half of a second on live tv.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/divorcing-hbo-sundays-brutal-game-of-thrones-goes-way-too-far/ This was written after the red wedding last year.

[Trillian]

Martin didn't openly say that they screwed it up, but the fact that he cared to point out that he hasn't been involved on that I think says it all.

But hey, it could be worse. She could have also been visibly on her period as in the books, to make it a bit more splatter.

[Roose Seal]

Man, can't they just come out and say "we screwed up, it was not our intention, but we screwed up and we apologize for it". HOW HARD IS IT?

Besides, they are all ignoring (or misunderstanding) the bigger point: it's not rape in and of itself that bothers people, it's the fact that they shot a rape scene thinking it was consensual. That's what's fucked up: it's the fact that these people have no idea what rape is.

[Ran]

Yeah, it'd be easier if someone just said, "Yeah, that edit was really bad, wasn't what we planned."

[The Prophet of Patch]

Man, can't they just come out and say "we screwed up, it was not our intention, but we screwed up and we apologize for it". HOW HARD IS IT?

Besides, they are all ignoring (or misunderstanding) the bigger point: it's not rape in and of itself that bothers people, it's the fact that they shot a rape scene thinking it was consensual. That's what's fucked up: it's the fact that these people have no idea what rape is.

:agree: The actors'/director's statements don't clear a whole lot up, since I think most people (at this point) assume they were going for a scene that was essentially the same as in the book, but missed the mark. Rewatching that scene, I can even see a few points where that intention shines through, but those points clearly don't do enough to alleviate the tone of violent sexual assault. All they need is Graves/D&D/somebody to say, "Sorry, we get it, that turned out way more rapey than we intended, we see why there was a problem."

Also, if your name is an Arrested Development reference, you win this forum.

[Faint]

They could have given Lena a couple of more lines to say and this would have resolved the entire situation.

[The Prophet of Patch]

They could have given Lena a couple of more lines to say and this would have resolved the entire situation.

Yeah, pretty much anything besides "No, stop, no," probably would've done the trick

[Faint]

Yeah, pretty much anything besides "No, stop, no," probably would've done the trick

"No, not here" followed five seconds later by "yes!" would have been more than enough.

[The Lady Leela]

Besides, they are all ignoring (or misunderstanding) the bigger point: it's not rape in and of itself that bothers people, it's the fact that they shot a rape scene thinking it was consensual. That's what's fucked up: it's the fact that these people have no idea what rape is.

Yeah, that's what really fucking bothered me about the whole thing. Here you have male writers, male producers, male directors, and male editors all shooting an all out rape scene... ALL these men... and not a single one of them noticed the blatant rape.

Says a lot about our society.

[Mr Fixit]

Yeah, that's what really fucking bothered me about the whole thing. Here you have male writers, male producers, male directors, and male editors all shooting an all out rape scene... ALL these men... and not a single one of them noticed the blatant rape.

Says a lot about our society.

I don't really get what you're trying to say. Or do you mean that Dan Weiss, David Benioff, Alex Graves, Nikolaj, and the editor are all male chauvinist rapist pigs who don't really know what rape is. And by the way, Benioff, Graves, and Coster-Waldau did say that Jaime forced himself on Cersei.

[Faint]

Yeah, that's what really fucking bothered me about the whole thing. Here you have male writers, male producers, male directors, and male editors all shooting an all out rape scene... ALL these men... and not a single one of them noticed the blatant rape.

Says a lot about our society.

Well, from Lena's comments, apparently she didn't either.

[The Lady Leela]

I don't really get what you're trying to say.

I'm sorry. Let me dumb that down for you:

A bunch of men shot a scene in which Jaime forced himself on Cersei, forced her down on her back, ripped her dress off, and fucked her as she struggled to free herself off of him and kept screaming, "NO! DON'T DO THIS! NO!"

Neither of the men involved in the shooting of that scene recognized Jaime's actions as rape. They all keep saying that it was consensual because after Jaime completely dominated and pinned Cersei down on the floor, leaving her with absolutely NO choice but to give up, she eventually stopped struggling. At that point, and ONLY AT THAT POINT, did the sex become consensual. Because she just couldn't fight him off anymore. Except, they didn't even show us the part where Cersei gave up. She struggled and kept yelling NO until the scene cut away.

Is that easy enough to read, or should I get Elmo to explain it to you?

[Florina Laufeyson]

And by the way, Benioff, Graves, and Coster-Waldau did say that Jaime forced himself on Cersei.

This.

The problem is Graves' idiotic comment about "it becomes consensual later" last week.

Headey's comments read to me like she was explaining what was going on in Cersei's head.

[Mr Fixit]

Neither of the men involved in the shooting of that scene recognized Jaime's actions as rape. They all keep saying that it was consensual because after Jaime completely dominated and pinned Cersei down on the floor, leaving her with absolutely NO choice but to give up, she eventually stopped struggling. At that point, and ONLY AT THAT POINT, did the sex become consensual.

Oh, you mean like in the books? Why didn't you say so in the first place? We could've avoided this misunderstanding.