Jump to content

Are the Tyrells now too deep in the Game?


Recommended Posts

The Tyrells are de facto rulers in Kings landing, Mace Tyrell has made no secret of his ambitions even if he seems a more amicable sort than Littlefinger or the late Tywin Lannister.



He is now in the position to influence the malleable King Tommen as a surrogate father figure. The Small Council is stacked with Highgarden loyalists, and its not unreasonable to assume Mace Tyrell will be the new regent, giving him the opportunity to pick another ally to be Hand of the King.



But as we know ruling in King's Landing can often be a poisoned chalice, The Golden Company and Aegon are coming his way. Perhaps even followed by the Mother of Dragons with the Iron Fleet. The realm is a mess, Seven Kingdoms in name only. Highgarden's auld enemy Dorne will surely throw in with one of the 'Dragons'. The Kingsguard is a shambles with an absentee Lord Commander. The Treasury is empty and the Crown millions in hock. Ironmen have invaded the lands of Tyrell bannermen and now even threaten the Reach proper. Varys is making his move.



If I have my history right then Highgarden has traditionally been a staunch Targaryen Loyalist. In the War of Five Kings they've already changed sides once, and the contemporary Lannister alliance has always been a marriage(s) of convenience.



But are they now in too deep?



Will Mace Tyrell give up what must seem to him a commanding position and bend the knee? Margaery probably wont have a better chance to be the Queen seeing as Aegon still has his eye on Auntie Dany.



It has been said that Highgarden can command 80-100k men, a staggering amount in relative terms, and they had been mostly unscathed by the conflict until the Ironborn incursions.



So will Mace Tyrell dig in for the Long War, or hand over Tommen and hope he can palm off Margaery again?


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually think its quite likely Cersei will win her trial and be reinstated as regent, tommen dies of natural causes and Myrcella is crowned at which point Marge is a widow yet again and Mace et al leave KL to deal with the IB. I think he'll try to wed Marge to fAegon but he'll be already wed to Arianne. and so Mace will hold off of the immediate conflict using the IB attacks as an excuse, whilst still officially backing the IT, but that ultimately when she finally comes he will back Dany. He'll think the Dragons guarantee her victory. he doesn't like risky conflicts after all.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, the irony if they don't get in with a Dragon in time, are decimated, and are replaced by a house of the Reach just waiting for their turn...



I think they may try to dig in against Aegon. With that kind of army it makes sense that they would assume they could take on the Golden Company, and with that attitude it would be in their best interest to preserve the status quo. That is assuming Tommen is still alive when the conflict arises, though. If he's not, their stake is essentially lost and I see no reason they wouldn't try to get in good with Aegon. Especially considering the wedge just getting bigger and bigger between the Lannisters and the Tyrells at the end of aDwD.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

<snip>

It really depends. The Tyrells are very, very opportunistic, so if they're willing to forsake Marg being the queen, they may be in a relatively good position for the Targ to take over. Assuming Marg is acquitted, she'd still be a maiden and they could use her for decent alliances. Keep in mind how the Tyrells came to be in charge of the Reach anyway. They're rather quick to bend a knee if it suits them, based on family history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think their position is unwinnable. Unlike the Ironborn invasion of the North the vast majority of the Reach's strength (with the exception of House Florent among others) isn't spent and while they might have claimed the Shield Isles fighting on land against the vast Tyrell army seems a different ball game. Likewise Aegon doesn't yet have the strength to march against them directly and I'm uncertain if his victory would be inevitable even with Dorne, whose military strength to my recollection is only some 20,000 spears. The Reach isn't lacking in commanders either, Randyll Tarly, Mathis Rowan etc.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I think the Tyrells are just knee benders, so I think they will just bend the knee to someone.

The impression i have as well. They change allegiances quite easily, and still betrays those who they are supposed to support, happened with Stannis, and with Jeoffrey's murder, their hunger to ascend in power seems to be above evertyhing else, and i for that hope they get what it's comming for them.

They seem to be almost like a sophisticated version of the Freys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think their position is unwinnable. Unlike the Ironborn invasion of the North the vast majority of the Reach's strength (with the exception of House Florent among others) isn't spent and while they might have claimed the Shield Isles fighting on land against the vast Tyrell army seems a different ball game. Likewise Aegon doesn't yet have the strength to march against them directly and I'm uncertain if his victory would be inevitable even with Dorne, whose military strength to my recollection is only some 20,000 spears. The Reach isn't lacking in commanders either, Randyll Tarly, Mathis Rowan etc.

Yeah, I agree. They still have some cards to play: the Redwyne Fleet is sailing to the Reach to fight the Ironborn, they hold Dragonstone, they could also make common cause with some of Euron's enemies, like Asha, for example.

They're also loved by the commoners of KL, so it would be a bad thing for Aegon's image to slaughter them like Tywin did to Elia and her children. They were also notable Targ loyalists before, so at least Aegon and Connington don't hold them responsible for the downfall of the Targs.

So overall, I don't think they're going to win or hold the Iron Throne for long, but I think they'll at least have the good sense and the means to back off relatively unscathed and they'll sit out the next big war

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, GRRM in one interview (the one with football team comparisons) said the Tyrells "will take a step back" in the Game of Thrones in TWOW, which doesn't surprise me much, because Winter is coming here. Makes me a little bit hopefull though, that the roses might just go into hibernation and come back with (a dream of) spring. :commie:


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't be surprised if GRRM kills them off. As someone said previously, they are the Knights of Summer, and Winter is Coming. I think when winter finally comes, the Tyrells will die one by one. Willas and Garlan dying when Euron takes Highgarden. Mace and Margaery dying during one of Cersei's paranoid rampages. Olenna dying from old age. And Loras could already be dead for all we know. Can't say I would be saddened by it, but I wouldn't be happy over it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, GRRM in one interview (the one with football team comparisons) said the Tyrells "will take a step back" in the Game of Thrones in TWOW, which doesn't surprise me much, because Winter is coming here. Makes me a littöe bit hopefull though, that the roses might just go into hibernation and come back with spring. :commie:

Sounds about right to me. There's really only two possibilities for them:

1. They quickly bend the knee to whoever is rising to power and continue to survive, which is in line with their family history; or

2. They get taken down by one of their sworn houses and meet an end similar to the Gardeners, which would be be fitting with a lot of the weird ways justice is served in Westeros.

I like them, so I'm hoping for #1, but who knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. They quickly bend the knee to whoever is rising to power and continue to survive, which is in line with their family history;

I like the idea of them throwing in with Dany in contrast to the Martells going with Aegon in the Dance With Dragons. And once the dragons have killed each other those two houses finally get the sense to join up the south. An obstacle I can see with an Tyrell/Targaryen Alliance is that Olenna really seems to despise the dragons (but whom doesn't she despise?)

2. They get taken down by one of their sworn houses and meet an end similar to the Gardeners, which would be be fitting with a lot of the weird ways justice is served in Westeros.

That never makes much sense to me tbh. With all the shit going down right now, they need to be "punished" for what happened 300 years ago?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I have my history right then Highgarden has traditionally been a staunch Targaryen Loyalist.

Well they fought on the Targaryen side during Robert's Rebellion, however what exactly the Tyrells did I wouldn't exactly describe as staunchly loyal.

The Tyrells basically invaded the Stormlands and laid siege to Storm's End, then they sit there and wait to see what happens. The only known other engagement we know where Reachmen fought the rebels is the skirmish between Robert and Randyll Tarly at (I may be wrong) Duskendale where the main Reach army doesn't show up in time to stop Robert from escaping.

There is no indication that many Reachmen and almost certainly no Tyrells fought on the Trident. One might speculate had Rhaegar won on the Trident Mace Tyrell might have ordered an all-out assault on Storm's End so he could kill Stannis and Renly and thus present their bodies to Aerys to gain the credit for wiping out the last Baratheons. As things transpired the rebels won but the Tyrells still had an intact army which was allowed to dip its banners to Ned Stark and march back to the Reach with their heads held high (probably with a lot of loot from Storm Lands' small folk in their baggage too!) as they didn't really do much to piss off Robert and the main leaders of the Rebellion (Stannis was a different matter... but then when did Mace ever care what Stannis thought anyway...).

Prudent is how I would describe the Tyrell support for the Targaryens during the Rebellion. They did enough to show loyalty to the Crown and positioned themselves to move in to claim a reward if things went one way, but didn't completely burn their bridges with the other side. Graven who described them as more sophisticated Freys is on the money as the late Lord Frey was similarly prudent at the Trident (or not as he didn't show up till after the battle). Tywin Lannister's rather more successful 'support' for the other side was similarly prudent right up to when Aerys opened the gates to King's Landing...

Prudence has rather informed the Tyrell policy during the WoT5K too except towards Stannis (but then he's never forgiven them for besieging his home and looting his homeland! So why would they bother now...) but I kind of agree with the OP that as the Hand, Queen and other Councillors for a child king their wriggle room to change sides again now is somewhat restricted...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

but I kind of agree with the OP that as the Hand, Queen and other Councillors for a child king their wriggle room to change sides again now is somewhat restricted...

Yep. That cliff Olenna warned of is aproaching faster and faster. I still think best outcome for them would be Cersei losing her trail. Would give them an excuse to dismount from the lion/take their ball and go home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It really depends. The Tyrells are very, very opportunistic, so if they're willing to forsake Marg being the queen, they may be in a relatively good position for the Targ to take over. Assuming Marg is acquitted, she'd still be a maiden and they could use her for decent alliances. Keep in mind how the Tyrells came to be in charge of the Reach anyway. They're rather quick to bend a knee if it suits them, based on family history.

They have no history of bending the knee when they are already de facto rulers. Even if Cersei somehow rises back to regent (which would be a literary joke seeing how everything went down for her so far), she should be very easily replaced. How Mace can side with any Targ while Marg is married to a Lannister/Baratheon queen is seeming pretty farfetched considering Mace is already ready to deal with the "pretender" at Storms End.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes. They came out of the shadows and killed a king to take power. Now that they are at the top of the mountain, they either have to continue to be ruthless to maintain that position, be taken down by all the other climbers, or voluntarily step aside. At the moment, they have no reason to step aside. So ruthlessness will be the order of the day, to save themselves and to keep their power.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...