Will the rest of Westeros ever realize how much they owe Stannis Baratheon?

[Nyrhex]

Renly defeating Stannis would have led to Robb going to the Wall.

Stannis still dies.

You are going to need to explain that one. It does not work at all with what we see in the books.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

What's so bad about the Lady Lannister comment. Just Sansa fans taking it personally? From a political point of view he wouldn't want Sansa in Winterfell, because it would mean Tyrion ruling Winterfell. And she IS Lady Lannister, even if it is not by choice.

Maybe wouldn't be so bad, if not for Stannis' fifteen years' worth of whining about Storm's End. Robert skipping Stannis - mighty unlawful, Stannis intending to bypass Sansa - totally different thing? Methinks not.

[Hodor the Articulate]

You are going to need to explain that one. It does not work at all with what we see in the books.

Obviously, Highgarden would not have allied with the Lannisters, and Renly would have been crowned by now. Robb would have either bent the knee, or lost the battle for independence. Either way, the Northmen would be available to defend the Wall.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Obviously, Highgarden would not have allied with the Lannisters, and Renly would have been crowned by now. Robb would have either bent the knee, or lost the battle for independence. Either way, the Northmen would be available to defend the Wall.

Being that the North had about 30,000 men left beyond the neck at the time, what was stopping atleast 10k of them from helping out?

[Stormland's Fury]

Obviously, Highgarden would not have allied with the Lannisters, and Renly would have been crowned by now. Robb would have either bent the knee, or lost the battle for independence. Either way, the Northmen would be available to defend the Wall.

Or robb might have died because no one drew Tywin to King's Landing at that point and the Ironborn would have still been in the North. Lot of speculation really.

[Stormland's Fury]

Maybe wouldn't be so bad, if not for Stannis' fifteen years' worth of whining about Storm's End. Robert skipping Stannis - mighty unlawful, Stannis intending to bypass Sansa - totally different thing? Methinks not.

Ok.

[The Kinkslayer]

Winter is just starting, nobody will care about what Stannis did at the wall until spring, and even then he may end up as the villian for allowing wildings to cross south of the wall.

[Roddy the Ruin]

Ummm yeah, if Stannis had not stopped the wildlings from destroying the nights watch the others would have gotten to westeros way sooner, and everyone would currently be dead. He delayed the others, and that is giving aa(whoever that will be) time to stop them.

I personally think Bran is AAR(or LHR), Daenerys is TSTWMTW, and Jon is TPTWP

and all three together is the SOIAF

Bran= the big magic wielder who will use it to stop the Others

Daenerys= the one who will unite Westeros for a single purpose, to defeat the Others, but I think she will die before the final battle, maybe in a minor battle or something with the Others

Jon= As Lord Commander, and possibly the King at this point will lead the forces that Dany united against the Others. With aid from Bran, Jon and the Realm will stop the Others

[Nyrhex]

Obviously, Highgarden would not have allied with the Lannisters, and Renly would have been crowned by now. Robb would have either bent the knee, or lost the battle for independence. Either way, the Northmen would be available to defend the Wall.

Renly's plan was to let Robb and Tywin fight each other. Robb's plan was to have Renly and Tywin fight each other. Tywin's plan was to wait for either Robb or Renly to make the first move. Balon was launching the invasion of the North while Catelyn was marching with Renly to meet Stannis.

Renly is already crowned - He was crowned by Mace in Highgarden. If you mean that he would sit the IT, that he might. But he would not have all of Westeros at his feet by now. Robb was crowned because neither he, nor most of his lords, wanted Renly as king. Renly wanted homage, the one thing Robb would not give him. The Vale and Dorne are neutral, and the Ironborn are already launching the invasion.

600 Boltons, 450 Karstarks and both Umbers and thier men were right fucking there, a few days march away, until finally moving thier ass in Dance. If the Watch's own neighbors won't lift a finger to aid them, if the hand that Thorne had is already gone, if Robb is talking about taking his kingdom back from the Ironborn (who hold two minor castles with small forces, and Moat Cailin with a skeleton garrison) and does not mention the Wildling threat in a word, why the hell should we assume that because Renly is still alive, the Wall is somehow safe?

Robb still has ~30,000 men south of the Neck. Tywin still has 20,000 men in the Riverlands, and another ~15,000 in the West. Renly had 90,000 men total, and no fleet. Why on earth would the war end so soon, as to allow the unification of Westeros and lords who have hundreds of men (just the Umbers and Karstarks, I'm not greedy), to have nothing better to do, and to actually bother to aid the Watch?

The thought that Renly living has any effect on the Wall is baseless.

[Tankbuster]

I personally think Bran is AAR(or LHR), Daenerys is TSTWMTW, and Jon is TPTWP

and all three together is the SOIAF

Bran= the big magic wielder who will use it to stop the Others

Daenerys= the one who will unite Westeros for a single purpose, to defeat the Others, but I think she will die before the final battle, maybe in a minor battle or something with the Others

Jon= As Lord Commander, and possibly the King at this point will lead the forces that Dany united against the Others. With aid from Bran, Jon and the Realm will stop the Others

Acronym overloard.

[Hodor the Articulate]

Or robb might have died because no one drew Tywin to King's Landing at that point and the Ironborn would have still been in the North. Lot of speculation really.

If Robb dies, Renly aids Winterfell in exchange for fealty. The Northmen defend the wall. Alternatively, Renly makes allies of the Ironborn, and they and/or the Kingsmen defend the wall (neither would want to deal with Wildling attacks).

Being that the North had about 30,000 men left beyond the neck at the time, what was stopping atleast 10k of them from helping out?

I don't know what his has to do with anything. Though, now that you've brought it up, I don't recall Robb ever hearing about the situation at the Wall. Hmmm...time for me to re-read ACOK...

[Stormland's Fury]

If Robb dies, Renly aids Winterfell in exchange for fealty. The Northmen defend the wall. Alternatively, Renly makes allies of the Ironborn, and they and/or the Kingsmen defend the wall (neither would want to deal with Wildling attacks).

Still a lot of speculation (Balon allying himself with Renly?). Stannis killing Renly doesn't change the fact no one cares about the Wall or the Wildlings.

Which was the argument to begin with.

[Mithras]

What happened to those near 90k wildlings who fled to the Haunted Forest?

Since Stannis has no concern to seek those wildlings and save them, I hope he has a plan to stop them when they attack the Wall as wights by tens of thousands.

[Stormland's Fury]

Since Stannis has no concern to seek those wildlings and save them, I hope he has a plan to stop them when they attack the Wall as wights by tens of thousands.

Do you think they are still together as one big unit?

There are all scattered in small groups all over a huge area covered by forest.

[Hodor the Articulate]

Still a lot of speculation (Balon allying himself with Renly? The Ironborn just retreat to the Iron Islands and the Wildlings are no problem for them).

...in which case, the Northmen + Kingsmen are free to defend the wall.

Stannis killing Renly doesn't change the fact no one cares about the Wall or the Wildlings.

Which was the argument to begin with.

The Lannisters didn't care because they wanted the Northmen distracted. In peace times, they'd want to secure their realm.

Renly's plan was to let Robb and Tywin fight each other. Robb's plan was to have Renly and Tywin fight each other. Tywin's plan was to wait for either Robb or Renly to make the first move. Balon was launching the invasion of the North while Catelyn was marching with Renly to meet Stannis.

<snip>

I don't remember any of this, but I do remember Robb's plans to go back North. So, following that: if RW still happens, Tywin vs. the Crown gets fast-tracked. If not, Robb's back in Winterfell.

[Stormland's Fury]

...in which case, the Northmen + Kingsmen are free to defend the wall.

No the Northerns go home and harvest their crops before winter is coming in the hypothetical event they get subdued by Renly. The Riverlords are busy cleaning up after the shit others have left and Renly + the Tyrells sure not going to send any of their men up North if basically no one believes the Night's Watch to begin with.

[Mladen]

Why? Sansa IS Lady Lannister. Do you deny that she's married to Tyrion?

I don't deny the marriage, but since no one called Cersei a Baratheon, I don't see why the illegal forced marriage should be taken seriously. Sansa has been referred as a Stark by every person...

Yes, they are a thing and they are a very real threat. I would rather not have to fight them. No more Sansa lannister comments.

ETA: or well, at least be sensitive about it I should say. Like, stannis wasn't mocking Sansa. He just doesn't know what's going on there, is all.

Thank you very much... I forgive ignorance... There was no ill will from Stannis' part...

[devilrob6]

Renly's plan was to let Robb and Tywin fight each other. Robb's plan was to have Renly and Tywin fight each other. Tywin's plan was to wait for either Robb or Renly to make the first move. Balon was launching the invasion of the North while Catelyn was marching with Renly to meet Stannis.

Renly is already crowned - He was crowned by Mace in Highgarden. If you mean that he would sit the IT, that he might. But he would not have all of Westeros at his feet by now. Robb was crowned because neither he, nor most of his lords, wanted Renly as king. Renly wanted homage, the one thing Robb would not give him. The Vale and Dorne are neutral, and the Ironborn are already launching the invasion.

600 Boltons, 450 Karstarks and both Umbers and thier men were right fucking there, a few days march away, until finally moving thier ass in Dance. If the Watch's own neighbors won't lift a finger to aid them, if the hand that Thorne had is already gone, if Robb is talking about taking his kingdom back from the Ironborn (who hold two minor castles with small forces, and Moat Cailin with a skeleton garrison) and does not mention the Wildling threat in a word, why the hell should we assume that because Renly is still alive, the Wall is somehow safe?

Robb still has ~30,000 men south of the Neck. Tywin still has 20,000 men in the Riverlands, and another ~15,000 in the West. Renly had 90,000 men total, and no fleet. Why on earth would the war end so soon, as to allow the unification of Westeros and lords who have hundreds of men (just the Umbers and Karstarks, I'm not greedy), to have nothing better to do, and to actually bother to aid the Watch?

The thought that Renly living has any effect on the Wall is baseless.

I agree here. And like Osha said; Robb was marching the wrong way (for very understandable reasons). None of the king's made any mention of the Wall, besides some scheming in KL to remove Jon. Robb had Lannisters and Ironborn to deal with. At best, Robb would have started to deal with the wildlings after their invasion, if he had made it back North and defeated the Ironborn,

[Stormland's Fury]

I don't deny the marriage, but since no one called Cersei a Baratheon, I don't see why the illegal forced marriage should be taken seriously. Sansa has been referred as a Stark by every person...

To be fair Stannis has no clue what exactly happened in King's Landing, nor does he know Sansa personally. For all he knew she was in on it to gain power, especially since she was engaged to Joffrey.

[devilrob6]

Maybe wouldn't be so bad, if not for Stannis' fifteen years' worth of whining about Storm's End. Robert skipping Stannis - mighty unlawful, Stannis intending to bypass Sansa - totally different thing? Methinks not.

Methinks yes. Bypassing Stannis by Robert was pointless, while bypassing Sansa keeps Stannis' enemies out of Winterfell. It's the Lannisters that concern him, not Sansa. If Sansa would not have been married, Stannis would have been happy to get her to Winterfell.