The Other Revelation Part II: Ice Scream Edition

[Florina Laufeyson]

Part One is a bit long. So how about a fresh one?

A huge reveal hit us in this episode that really made us stagger. How to make sense of the mystery surrounding the Others/White Walkers?

[Deadwood]

To refer to the other thread.

The WWs take male babies because that is what they are offered. Craster doesn't wish to shag his sons, only his daughters.

I would bet that when Craster ran off with his wilding wives and set up his fiefdom he started hurling out the male babies which brought the attention of the WWs, and it became a 'thing'.

The WWs saved the lives of 100 kids!

[WTFSalami]

Given the info we have on Craster, and the info we have on the WW, I've got to believe that the baby is now in much better hands.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Given the info we have on Craster, and the info we have on the WW, I've got to believe that the baby is now in much better hands.

:D Yes. Especially given the info we have about the mutineers. Why do i feel like that baby got rescued?

[Blazfemur]

To refer to the other thread.

The WWs take male babies because that is what they are offered. Craster doesn't wish to shag his sons, only his daughters.

I would bet that when Craster ran off with his wilding wives and set up his fiefdom he started hurling out the male babies which brought the attention of the WWs, and it became a 'thing'.

The WWs saved the lives of 100 kids!

Now wait just a minute. Craster may have been a dick, bt it is in fact apparent, that those "rules" were set into place.

"Dont touch my daughters or ill kill you" was a common theme. Well, why?

If one of his daughters got pregnant, and it was a boy, but didn't have craster's full seed and was tainted by 50% of someone else's seed, then would that botch The Others' ceremony? Because it's not full Craster blood? (i say 50% because his daughters are inbred over and over, so id think by now theyre mostly craster blood to begin with, plus his 50%)

It seems to me, a bigger conspiracy, might be to maintain the blood of Craster, in male form. What is Craster's lineage, that makes his blood so special?

There may have been a purpose, beyond "Im a horny old guy that just fucks his daughters to get laid" idea. By fucking his daughters through the generations, it limits the blood of the original more, making his blood more potent, and each baby boy born, has the highest of his blood. Not only can his production be more frequent with the birth of each new daughter, but his blood would be more potent with each baby from that said daughter.

Yeah, i dont think it's "my daughters are special to me", but rather, "my boys are SUPER special to me, because they serve a purpose"

....do you think, Craster's ancestry, could be descended from, The Night's King and Night's Queen? And that his blood just needs a sort of, "ignition," to tap into that magic.

[Blazfemur]

He talks about, "making amends with the old gods."

That seems to be a hint of sorts, id like to think.

His job, is basically supplying The Others with Others. But why him? Why not just any other living being. Why his baby boys, specifically?

There's something here, an underlying mystery. Id think Craster was put up to doing that, to save his own hide, granted, but for something more.

With each generation, that blood becomes more potent. Stronger, in his sway, and lesser of the original mother.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I don't think it matters that the boys are Craster's or not. I doubt Craster is the only one providing the WW with boys, willingly or not. The Others won't be running a DNA test. As much, they might need the blood of the First Men and the daughters are also wildlings and have Craster's blood, being his daughters.

[Ābra]

It would be strange not? I mean it would really be a special character over into the world of Westeros, it would do a lot for me. For me Craster is just a wild, after it is true that the final scene is strange, but I do not think that White Walkers come with sacrifices of Craster, there is something else, what? I do not know yet, but there is something more. The Night's King wants children to turn them, okay, but I do not think that his army should comprise only the children of Craster (and other wildlings.) This isn't a machine so I do not think that there may be 2,000 children and so many Others. We have not yet enough information I believe to understand what it does.

The Others are creatures that have no human origins, i don't think.

It's too common.

The scene gives me chills in any case and intriguing detail, with the exception of the ceremony, it is the presence of 12 other White Walkers behind the King. They can be 12 first Lord commanders, because we know that the Night's King is the 13th Commander. There can be transformed the corpses of others to his generals. I do a lot of supposition, sorry.

[Blazfemur]

I don't think it matters that the boys are Craster's or not. I doubt Craster is the only one providing the WW with boys, willingly or not. The Others won't be running a DNA test. As much, they might need the blood of the First Men and the daughters are also wildlings and have Craster's blood, being his daughters.

while I agree that it's most likely First Men blood that he has, and that it's First Men blood that give The Others their icy power (correlated with Targaryens with dragonblood and fire), theoretically, we only saw 13 Others in that episode. They could very well all be Craster's (not likely, but the possibility is there).

You have an army of wights, i dont recall seeing any more than 13 Others at a single time, and that was last episode.

Regardless to their numbers, yeah your probably right it's not just Craster. The point is, there's something in the blood. If it's First Men blood, or otherwise, we dont know.

Now, the name of the final episode this season, is called "The Children."

Seeing and debating this for 1,008 posts now, and knowing what we know...

The title of that episode is chilling.

[Ābra]

The name of the last episode perhaps refers to the Children of the Forest.

The title of that episode is chilling.

I'am totally agree.

[Blazfemur]

It would be strange not? I mean it would really be a special character over into the world of Westeros, it would do a lot for me. For me Craster is just a wild, after it is true that the final scene is strange, but I do not think that White Walkers come with sacrifices of Craster, there is something else, what? I do not know yet, but there is something more. The Night's King wants children to turn them, okay, but I do not think that his army should comprise only the children of Craster (and other wildlings.) This isn't a machine so I do not think that there may be 2,000 children and so many Others. We have not yet enough information I believe to understand what it does.

The Others are creatures that have no human origins, i don't think.

It's too common.

The scene gives me chills in any case and intriguing detail, with the exception of the ceremony, it is the presence of 12 other White Walkers behind the King. They can be 12 first Lord commanders, because we know that the Night's King is the 13th Commander. There can be transformed the corpses of others to his generals. I do a lot of supposition, sorry.

Dont apologize, this is the perfect place for supposition, and i believe supposition is the majority of my posts.

If we take into consideration the fact The Night's King and The Others have pretty much upheld every single aspect of THe Night's Oath (WITH the one exception OF the female Other),

it may be a good assumption, to think, there's 13 Others. Ok. Him, and 12 others. Well, he was 13th lord commander. Could they be the first 12? Maybe... Maybe the 14th lord commander, was the "corrupt" one, that took over, exiled TNK, named him a traitor, and changed the night's watch to what it is today.

Maybe the night watch was different, on the 13th and previous lord commanders, and thats why he chose them, specifically.

But there is one loophole.

If these are the original 12, and him, i have to believe, not all 12 were alive when he turned them. THey'd be wights, theoretically, not Others. From what we know, corpses turn to wights, livign beings, into Others.

[Blazfemur]

The name of the last episode perhaps refers to the Children of the Forest.

I'am totally agree.

No no no, maybe not, the childen of the forest, perhaps not those children.

I mean, Craster's children, as "The Children." Except now theyre all grown up ;)

[Blazfemur]

I'd also like to throw in some food for thought:

While it's not realized who The Night's King is, old nan suggests her theory of him being a Stark. We still don't know his name.

Now, onto the Great Other. Melisandre's top arch nemesis. She frequently states her hatred for The Great Other, whose name shall not be spoken. Well, why? What's so secret about it... Who is it.. I see a big reveal sometime in the future.

There's forced anonymity here. I don't think The Great Other IS The Night's King, though whose to suggest he isnt? R'hllorian faith is relatively new, i would assume. Certainly younger than when The Night's King was around..

Add to that, the fact that Sam tells Jon that their library only goes so far back. Why? They detail and write down everything, right down to their storage for the winter. It's like they blatantly excluded, or got rid of, all record of detail from when The Night's King was lord commander (with his previous 12).

The Night's King was known to have been exiled from the nights watch for falling in love with an Other. Did he? Or did he show up, already turned, and they reacted by throwing him out and claiming he loved her and thats how he turned. They are pretty quick to judge..

The 14th Lord Commander. I want to know his story. His ambitions, his way of thinking. Why he exiled 13, was he corrupt, what rules he set in motion, and what the differences were in the night's watch, when he was around, and when 13 was around.

For all we know, the 14th lord commander added in "no wives" after TNK debacle.

[Ābra]

Dont apologize, this is the perfect place for supposition, and i believe supposition is the majority of my posts.

Ok :)

If we take into consideration the fact The Night's King and The Others have pretty much upheld every single aspect of THe Night's Oath (WITH the one exception OF the female Other),

it may be a good assumption, to think, there's 13 Others. Ok. Him, and 12 others. Well, he was 13th lord commander. Could they be the first 12? Maybe... Maybe the 14th lord commander, was the "corrupt" one, that took over, exiled TNK, named him a traitor, and changed the night's watch to what it is today.

Maybe the night watch was different, on the 13th and previous lord commanders, and thats why he chose them, specifically.

But there is one loophole.

If these are the original 12, and him, i have to believe, not all 12 were alive when he turned them. THey'd be wights, theoretically, not Others. From what we know, corpses turn to wights, livign beings, into Others.

Many questions indeed. This is what I love with the saga, we know things, and yet even with some information, we know nothing.

You may be right in any case. I'll re-read the encyclopedia, perhaps there is an element, even the slightest which could help us to learn a little more.

I shiver thinking of this scene. She is short, but excellent.

In any case if one refers to the legends concerning the Night's King, talking about his semen, I extrapolate, but given that the scene shows us in the presence of children. White Walkers seeking perhaps something in the blood of men, including the First Men, saw that the Night's King was perhaps a Stark, and they are even descendants of the First Men... There are too many tracks. ^_^

No no no, maybe not, the childen of the forest, perhaps not those children.

I mean, Craster's children, as "The Children." Except now theyre all grown up ;)

I can't wait to see this episode. ^_^

[JonCon's Red Beard]

while I agree that it's most likely First Men blood that he has, and that it's First Men blood that give The Others their icy power (correlated with Targaryens with dragonblood and fire), theoretically, we only saw 13 Others in that episode. They could very well all be Craster's (not likely, but the possibility is there).

You have an army of wights, i dont recall seeing any more than 13 Others at a single time, and that was last episode.

Regardless to their numbers, yeah your probably right it's not just Craster. The point is, there's something in the blood. If it's First Men blood, or otherwise, we dont know.

Now, the name of the final episode this season, is called "The Children."

Seeing and debating this for 1,008 posts now, and knowing what we know...

The title of that episode is chilling.

The number 13 there might be only a coincidence or a small reference to that guy being the 13th LC, the NK: something for us readers to know who he is, while Unsullied simply saw him as "White Walker boss". Because I'm sure that Craster has given the others more than 13 sons. I'm a bit lazy to do the maths now, but he had 19 wives. at some point, he might have had at least 10 of them in fertile state in one year. That means that in a year, he could have gotten 10 babies. If half of them were male, then in a year, he probably got 5 sons. And for how long has he being doing this? Gilly is around 15, isn't she? So, ten years of banging 10 women would give more than 13 sons.

I'm sure either way that Craster's son is a special case. Those Others are "brothers" (half brothers but that doesn't matter). They have their blood "pure" in the same way the Targaryens had. I mean, their mother's had their father's blood. That could mean not something important for the "Ice" part of the equation but for the sons themselves, like, they have a strong bond or connection to each other, in the same way all the Stark kids (even Jon who might not be Ned's son) can warg and probably, will learn to communicate to each other in that way. They were able to locate Gilly's baby, it seems. Maybe they're able to see and feel each other due to their blood, something not all the Others can.

[Blazfemur]

According to the wiki, the Night's King sacrificed, similar to Craster.

For fuck's sake there's a theme here that we're missing.

And why the hell is the weirwood door underneath his Nightfort. It prevents his magic! Only sworn brothers of the Nights Watch can pass through.

Well he's one. Craster's father was as well.

Sworn vows wouldn't carry on to future generations, in fact future generations are prohibited (previous records destroyed, perhaps a previous version of the night's oath that was modified with the 14th lord commander?)

Craster's openly a dick... how is he a "friend" to the night's watch. Jeor Mormont knew what Craster did, yet, he let it happen. 'the fuck why?

Craster appears to have been living a sentence that Jeor Mormont knew about. Rules set in place, that he had to follow. "Dont go near my daughters, theyre mine!" and then giving his sons away to turn into Others by presumably, the Night's King.

WHAT THE HELL AM I MISSING HERE?

[Blazfemur]

The wiki also quotes that The Night's King turned when he gave the female Other his seed. Is Craster a descendent of that seed...

BAH i dont fucken know, this kind of thinking makes me want to actually do my job rather than be on here.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

According to the wiki, the Night's King sacrificed, similar to Craster.

For fuck's sake there's a theme here that we're missing.

And why the hell is the weirwood door underneath his Nightfort. It prevents his magic! Only sworn brothers of the Nights Watch can pass through.

Well he's one. Craster's father was as well.

Sworn vows wouldn't carry on to future generations, in fact future generations are prohibited (previous records destroyed, perhaps a previous version of the night's oath that was modified with the 14th lord commander?)

Craster's openly a dick... how is he a "friend" to the night's watch. Jeor Mormont knew what Craster did, yet, he let it happen. 'the fuck why?

Craster appears to have been living a sentence that Jeor Mormont knew about. Rules set in place, that he had to follow. "Dont go near my daughters, theyre mine!" and then giving his sons away to turn into Others by presumably, the Night's King.

WHAT THE HELL AM I MISSING HERE?

Well, the Watch is meant to be neutral. They can't disrupt Craster's way of living, even though they know what they do is wrong. Also, they aren't in the position to chastise others when they probably need all the help they can get.

I have my own crackpot theory as well: I think the Starks also did a sacrifice. Not like Craster's but something similar that was meant to be done by the Stark in charge (hence the "there must always be a Stark in winterfell"). Rickard Stark died and also Brandon. Ned never got the memo about what he must do. When the Others didn't get the Stark's sacrifice, whatever balance or pact was broken and they decided to go South.

[Blazfemur]

Well, the Watch is meant to be neutral. They can't disrupt Craster's way of living, even though they know what they do is wrong. Also, they aren't in the position to chastise others when they probably need all the help they can get.

I have my own crackpot theory as well: I think the Starks also did a sacrifice. Not like Craster's but something similar that was meant to be done by the Stark in charge (hence the "there must always be a Stark in winterfell"). Rickard Stark died and also Brandon. Ned never got the memo about what he must do. When the Others didn't get the Stark's sacrifice, whatever balance or pact was broken and they decided to go South.

"Winter Is Coming," could be the result of an unknown Stark breaking the pact and the impending arrival of winter's henchmen, unless youre suggesting Ned began that breaking?

Ok, side note, Craster's parents.

Father, was from the Night's Watch.

Mother, was from Whitetree, home to a hugeass muhfuggin weirwood. Jon made journey there, and found burned skulls underneath it, to which jeor exclaims he never knew why they burned their dead (easy one here, to prevent them from rising)

When they arrive, Jeor/Jon to Whitetree, there is nothing of importance there. THe crow even says, nothing here, i think iirc. However, they passed 4 other villages, or rather this one was the fourth. Why was Craster's mother's hometown the town George decided to include from their Great Ranging int he novels.

There's soemthing here, in this town. Craster's mother's hometown. There has to be something..

I have to find it. There's a piece to the puzzle in this chapter. Something we're missing.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

"Winter Is Coming," could be the result of an unknown Stark breaking the pact and the impending arrival of winter's henchmen, unless youre suggesting Ned began that breaking?

I think he did, but not because he wanted to. He didn't know. He wasn't meant to be his father's heir. His father and his heir died before he could have known. Maybe that's the reason the direwolves were sent to his children. To bring back the "balance" and mend what was broken.