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The Other Revelation Part II: Ice Scream Edition


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I'm quoting myself in a reply because my own remark just made a small revelation for me: Craster's wives knew their sons weren't being killed as sacrifices - hence their chanting "Gift to the Gods" ... the boys were a GIFT, not a sacrifice to be killed! In their eyes, this was definitely a better outcome for their sons than Craster killing them himself!

A 'gift' to the Gods can still be a sacrifice costing a life.

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People speculate that the White Walkers from the episode are the Nights King (confirmed more or less) and either the LC's of the NW or the Last Hero and the guys who went with him.


They also speculate that the baby got turned into a WW, just like the other babies.



That does raise the question, where did the original WW come from? They were there before the Nights Watch and before the Last Hero. And if the WW's we saw aren't them, where are they?


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A 'gift' to the Gods can still be a sacrifice costing a life.

Yes that's true but not in this case. The wives were quoted (from the books) saying "The brothers will be comin' for him!" about Gilly's baby. So they clearly already knew the babies were not being killed.

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Haha your critique made me laugh, well said! I will admit I never liked the way they chose to make the white walkers look, visually. I realize they can't afford to do a lot more fancy CGI stuff since they're already doing that with the dragons and direwolves, but the makeup and effects they did choose are not at all like they were described in the book. The head honcho guy does look a bit like an "Ice Maul" character straight out of a sci fi or horror flick or even an old 80s fantasy film (Labyrinth anyone?).

White Walkers were supposed to look really bizarre and 'otherworldly' - scary but not in a horror / creepy way but rather, in a strange alien way.

I think the Urskeks would have been a good place to start. Or other Froud work.

[pic]http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080531011512/darkcrystal/images/7/7c/Featured_UrSkeks.jpg[/pic]

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This scene was honestly the most embarrassing in the series so far. More embarrassing than Shae's fake crying.

How incredibly hokey did that WW look. I could not believe they chose that to be on the set of such a respected TV show.

If this were Thor or some other shlock, that design would have been fine. It was cartoonish. The WW already really weren't the best with their gandalf-ish looks and wrinkled skin.

I am OK with the show getting past the books since I figure Martin really doesn't give a crap about getting the rest of the books out. He's got his money.

I am not OK with them making characters look like they belong on a kids show.

I mean, can you imagine this guy walking up to Stannis, and Stannis' face? It would be laughable.

They toned down basically everything else in the show as far as fantasy, and then this guy pops up on screen and is like "I will make you a snowman!!!"

Who designed this guy? He was horrible.

I thought he more represented Martin's description than the other WWs we've seen so far, aside from the horns which did look silly.

Then again this is a show with dragons in it. Is it more ridiculous than their appearance? I don't know.

What I do know is a bottom-up view is not the most flattering angle for anyone. Maybe he'll look better next time.

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Yes that's true but not in this case. The wives were quoted (from the books) saying "The brothers will be comin' for him!" about Gilly's baby. So they clearly already knew the babies were not being killed.

It might be interpreted that the wives thought the WWs coming were brothers of the babes, or not. It's not definitive.

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It might be interpreted that the wives thought the WWs coming were brothers of the babes, or not. It's not definitive.

How can you say this passage, from the book, is not definitive?

"If you don't take him, they will."

"They?" said Sam, and the raven cocked its black head and echoed, "They. They. They."

"The boy's brothers," said the old woman on the left. "Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons."

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How can you say this passage, from the book, is not definitive?

"If you don't take him, they will."

"They?" said Sam, and the raven cocked its black head and echoed, "They. They. They."

"The boy's brothers," said the old woman on the left. "Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons."

Yes, that is definitive! :D

Old knowledge held by the wives then.

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People speculate that the White Walkers from the episode are the Nights King (confirmed more or less) and either the LC's of the NW or the Last Hero and the guys who went with him.

They also speculate that the baby got turned into a WW, just like the other babies.

That does raise the question, where did the original WW come from? They were there before the Nights Watch and before the Last Hero. And if the WW's we saw aren't them, where are they?

theres toooooo much unknown about the WW...i mean even believing old nan's tales that 13th LC banged a WW and became NK, like you said, doesnt explain where the WW came from in the first place...

"Leaf" the "child of the forest" down with Bran and BR might know...they were there first inhabitants of westeros, before men....they should know...or maybe Bran will find the answer in the trees...

btw, i think this was a perfect description of what people expected to see in the show -

Others - a mysterious and apparently malevolent race of creatures found beyond the Wall. They have only been seen at night, and seem to bring unnatural cold with them. They appear as tall, gaunt humanoids with eyes of blue so deep it burns like fire. They wear armor that shifts in color with every step, and wield thin crystal swords that are so cold they can shatter iron. Others move silently, but their voices sound like cracking ice. Creatures they kill reanimate as wights, undead zombies with glowing blue eyes. The Others exhibit a weakness to weapons made of dragonglass, which will pierce their armour easily. In death, they seem to melt into a pool of extremely cold liquid.
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btw, i think this was a perfect description of what people expected to see in the show -

Others - a mysterious and apparently malevolent race of creatures found beyond the Wall. They have only been seen at night, and seem to bring unnatural cold with them. They appear as tall, gaunt humanoids with eyes of blue so deep it burns like fire. They wear armor that shifts in color with every step, and wield thin crystal swords that are so cold they can shatter iron. Others move silently, but their voices sound like cracking ice. Creatures they kill reanimate as wights, undead zombies with glowing blue eyes. The Others exhibit a weakness to weapons made of dragonglass, which will pierce their armour easily. In death, they seem to melt into a pool of extremely cold liquid.

Apparently they'd already met their CGI budget for the previous season with dragons and direwolves so we got wrinkly old corpse dudes instead. :(

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Ok, in regards to the way The Others look and are portrayed. I'm not disappointed, but im not ecstatic. I think the pale rider, looked better, than the night's king. However, this is the way they portray them. Come to terms with it, amicably. They are, a different race. They look different. Definitely alien, in a way. I accept difference for what it is, he's not meant to be horrifying, this isnt the walking dead, he's a different race. It's a fantasy series. I get that.



Aging is apparent, when we talk about The Turning. They clearly, arent immortal. Or, they are, but experience deterioration. That's why they look so decrepid. Perhaps the less aged they are, the more "beautiful" they appear. It's also possible, that they experience rapid aging, due to the fact that their very being is magical and would take a lot of effort to keep up (take note Martin's opinions of magic and what it takes to shape them, and the sacrifices it takes to maintain glamours and such).



As magical beings, perhaps the fleshly body decays, but the spirit grows.



This baby, may be like, 6 years old at the end of next episode. Or, maybe not. We don't know.



I'm beginning to believe though, this may not have been Craster's original doing. It may have been he was forced to live in the manner he did due to his blood. Blackmail, in a sort of way. Thats why i think he went all defensive with his daughterwives. It would corrupt the cycle. It would disrupt the blood if it were contaminated with the seed of someone else, and for that The Others may have retaliated and known. It's possible not all babies would survive The Turning, if they werent full blooded Craster (due to an ingredient in the blood composition, kings blood, or first men blood, or both).



Think of a drug deal gone bad. "You gave us bad shit." "Oh, uh, that batch was oregano, my bad."



In regards to the baby surviving travel in the cold. It is frequently rumored that Others and Wights affect the immediate atmosphere around them. I'm not confirming this, but it identifies to me for the time being) that it's possible that an Other, or a Wight, may be able to absorb the immediate temperature around them, thus making the surrounding air warmer while they get colder (ghost theories, "cold spots"), also, (Winterfell, warm walls, etc [what IS down there in winterfell's crypts??]). Now if this ability can be controlled, then i place the logic that absorbing the cold around them would be the effect of "powering up" if we could use that terminology, and thus be able to exert that coldness when needed (like when the immediate atmosphere gets colder)



Whether or not that statement is at all accurate or not doesnt concern me at this point. I too, will be on board the "let's pick apart the logistics of a baby travelling in icy winter" at some point, but because i dont know much about The Others as of yet, im refuse to be bothered by it for the sheer possibilities that can be.


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How can you say this passage, from the book, is not definitive?

"If you don't take him, they will."

"They?" said Sam, and the raven cocked its black head and echoed, "They. They. They."

"The boy's brothers," said the old woman on the left. "Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons."

See my post earlier on. The title of the 10th episode is, "The Children." I for one, dont believe they mean the Children Of The Forest regarding Bran/Bloodraven. I think, this'll be a big episode involving The Others whose father they call Craster, The Children.

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Apparently they'd already met their CGI budget for the previous season with dragons and direwolves so we got wrinkly old corpse dudes instead. :(

i dont mind the wrinkles so much...but the way they move, i always pictured much more fluid and graceful, like almost smoke...do you remember the first fight scene in book 1 prologue? the way they materialize out of nowhere, the way they fight...these guys just look like bad puppets with rough, jerking movements like they aren't used to moving or have stiff joints or something...

but like http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/108944-the-other-revelation-part-ii-ice-scream-edition/?p=5730163

i have come to terms with it...

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A lot of interesting discussions here. Been lurking through almost every page of this and the older thread.



It just struck me that there might be a connection between what we've seen from Craster, the Others and the part of the Night's Watch vow about "fathering no children."



What if the two are related? As in, maybe it wasn't always in the vows, but kids kept getting taken or offered so they added it. Or maybe the founders of the Watch knew about the transformation process and put that condition in the vow.



Thought as I was typing - what if it that condition was added after the NK was purged from The Wall since that's the guy (maybe) we saw do the transforming?


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i dont mind the wrinkles so much...but the way they move, i always pictured much more fluid and graceful, like almost smoke...do you remember the first fight scene in book 1 prologue? the way they materialize out of nowhere, the way they fight...these guys just look like bad puppets with rough, jerking movements like they aren't used to moving or have stiff joints or something...

but like http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/108944-the-other-revelation-part-ii-ice-scream-edition/?p=5730163

i have come to terms with it...

That's all you need to do. It's the show, it's not the books. They aren't horror icons, they're fantasy villains. it's the design of their racial features as stated by D&D, not George.

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A lot of interesting discussions here. Been lurking through almost every page of this and the older thread.

It just struck me that there might be a connection between what we've seen from Craster, the Others and the part of the Night's Watch vow about "fathering no children."

What if the two are related? As in, maybe it wasn't always in the vows, but kids kept getting taken or offered so they added it. Or maybe the founders of the Watch knew about the transformation process and put that condition in the vow.

Thought as I was typing - what if it that condition was added after the NK was purged from The Wall since that's the guy (maybe) we saw do the transforming?

See my earlier post. WHO was the 14th Commander after they exiled TNK? Was he corrupt? Did he change the ideals and structure of the nights watch from what it was originally?

The Night's Watch we have today... is that the 14th lord commander's vision of the nights watch? 13th and prior nights watch might have had completely different values, and this is further bolstered by the fact that their libraries information doesnt reach that far back, that it was confirmed that all the information regarding the nights king and earlier -- was destroyed. why?

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I don't agree, with the mutineers and Karl's company, going on a raping spree obviously. Not for morality issues, ive accepted the fact this is game of thrones so you wont see any "oh im offended" posts here.



Here's why.



They're disrupting the bloodline. If any of those girls get pregnant (which some of them most likely will), their blood will be impure.



It's blasphemy to The Others, and it's desecrating the ceremony to which theyve been accustomed. Clearly, these babies need something from Craster's blood, and they wont get it from Karl from Gin Alley.


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