The Other Revelation Part II: Ice Scream Edition

[Starry]

Quote from this interview:

Although we got one big answer, the final scene presented a lot of questions as well. MacLaren says that showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss were very particular about how little they wanted to show, leaving the line-up blurred out on purpose.

What could have been seen if it wasn't blurred out I wonder. How the Others look we already know. So there would be no reason to blur it out. Any ideas?

[Blazfemur]

Might have happened had there not been numerous statements in the books by the brothers of the NW that wildling villages were deserted because folks joined MR, while there has not been a single reference to what you are saying. So, I'd leave it in the realm of "might be" until we have a hint in other direction. Btw, all wildlings are descendants of the First Men. It is known. :-) And the Others are definitely not raiding all the villages taking male babies or coming to some kind of a deal with villagers to offer sacrifice as they did with Craster. Yet, old nan had a saying "May the Others take you", which indicated sacrifices or abductions of babies had happened in the past, because they are a part of lore beyond-the-wall, which incidentally MR was studying. So, we may conclude Craster's keep is rare, but not a completely isolated incident. What we also can conclude from the show is that there were 13 Others dressed in black who performed and/or witnessed the turning ceremony on the altar in the middle of an icehenge i.e. a holy ground. The character whom HBO briefly identified as Night's King used his icy finger to turn the baby. What we saw in the prologue of the first episode of the GoT is that Ned Stark beheaded a NW deserter with a sword called Ice within a circle of a ruined stonehenge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad0hL0bRVWY

TC 0.45

We also know that Starks are charged with dealing with justice in the north, including dealing with deserters of the NW. Since NK was a Stark or so we suspect, it may be speculated that he was a head Stark on the other side of the Wall who had the same task when it came to the NW and he performed it in a holy place equivalent with the one we saw near Winterfell. The former was made of ice, the latter of stone. If we follow this premise, we may speculate (in this stage that's all we can do) that the leadership of the Others performs a task of punishing brothers of the NW who broke their vows. So, desertion = death sentence in which case Jon and Mance should have been attacked by the Others or will be in the future. Craster was a son of a brother of the NW. What's the punishment for fathering a child? We don't know what happened to his father. What we do know is that the Others have been taking all the males from the Craster's bloodline and turning them. My guess (at this point) is that they may be doing so in order not to let blood of the traitor of the NW spread beyond-the-wall and infiltrate the wildlings. That would be consistent with keeping the part of the vows that says that a brother should not take a wife, nor father any children. The weak point here is how come Craster was not taken? Was he protected by his mother who was a Whitetree witch and made her own sacrifices? We can only wonder and make conjunctures.

Also, note that the NW vows say "we are the watchers on the walls", "we guard the realms of men". The latter point Sam argues in front of measter Aemon after bringing Gilly to the Wall. Also, note that the NW lost its purpose and turned into a punitive colony with few exceptions. So, was that what woke the Others? The fact that the NW had ceased to guard the Wall properly and other watchers are necessary? Watchers of the walls, other walls, not just the Wall? I think the NK legend should be explored in depth, along with all the stories on the kings-beyond-the-wall if we are to come to any more comprehensive conclusion.

Not just the nights king, what had led to him taking his queen, how he was dismissed, and the possibility of in depth plot to overthrow and take his rule over. seriously, who was the 14th and what is his story???

the rules of the nights watch may have been different before then. in the defense of the nights king lead other, for the most part he's followed the oath to a tee.

[Maege]

Not just the infamous HBO synopsis. IMDB also lists the actor as Night's King.

[Modesty Lannister]

Not just the infamous HBO synopsis. IMDB also lists the actor as Night's King.

Thanks. Good to know.

[Ser Lepus]

Question: What if only people born from incest can turn into Others? In some cultures people born under an unauspicious sign (born from incest, born during a bad luck day, born in a cursed place...etc.) risk becoming evil/becoming witches/becoming monsters.

That would explain why Craster was respected, why all the other wildlings have such a strong rejection to inbreeding, why the Westerosi kill children born from incest, and why the Valyrians avoided Westeros (they were afraid of being turned).

[Declein]

What I don't get is this: From Martin's interview we are lead to believe that the Others aren't human, but another specie all together (something akin to the Children, indigen to Westeros)..and now we are told that they are humans, in a LOTR-perverted-like-fashion ? And if so, how did the first "Other" became to be ?

[Hielo y Fuego]

Question: What if only people born from incest can turn into Others? In some cultures people born under an unauspicious sign (born from incest, born during a bad luck day, born in a cursed place...etc.) risk becoming evil/becoming witches/becoming monsters.

That would explain why Craster was respected, why all the other wildlings have such a strong rejection to inbreeding, why the Westerosi kill children born from incest, and why the Valyrians avoided Westeros (they were afraid of being turned).

I think Westerosi aversion to incest comes from so many Targs being mad (or at least perceived to be mad). But other than that, this is a very interesting theory. I like it :thumbsup:

[Modesty Lannister]

Question: What if only people born from incest can turn into Others? In some cultures people born under an unauspicious sign (born from incest, born during a bad luck day, born in a cursed place...etc.) risk becoming evil/becoming witches/becoming monsters.

That would explain why Craster was respected, why all the other wildlings have such a strong rejection to inbreeding, why the Westerosi kill children born from incest, and why the Valyrians avoided Westeros (they were afraid of being turned).

It would, but it would not explain the sacrifices mad by the Night King and Queen unless they were brother and sister and we do not have any hint of that.

[Ser Lepus]

It would, but it would not explain the sacrifices mad by the Night King and Queen unless they were brother and sister and we do not have any hint of that.

Nobody said that they sacrificed their own spawn. Maybe they captured wildlings and force-bred them.

[Black Crow]

most people were disappointed with the way D&D chose to make the WW look from the first glimpse in s2...i agree with you that they look like a cartoon or kids version of how they were described in the book. but its been almost 2 yrs, i have made my peace with them looking the way they do on the show...not happy, but content...

Look at their faces and think weirwood...

[Deadwood]

What I don't get is this: From Martin's interview we are lead to believe that the Others aren't human, but another specie all together (something akin to the Children, indigen to Westeros)..and now we are told that they are humans, in a LOTR-perverted-like-fashion ? And if so, how did the first "Other" became to be ?

Can't wait to find out...if we do.

Possibly it's a Melkor/Orc thing, the Great Other doing the first change. Possibly the change is full so that the Others that get changed (assuming there are Others who were never human) are truly something else, not just humans who like a bit of cold.

[Unkindessofravens]

First post -- but to get down to business, I remember some of the Heresy threads speculating that Craster has Stark blood. I've wondered for a while whether the secret ingredient to producing an Other instead of a wight is being of the Stark lineage. Many Lord Commanders have been Starks; hell, maybe in the old days the Stark in Winterfell _was_ the Lord Commander and these posts only split after a northern civil war between Stark brothers. Or maybe, to get really weird, the end of the war involved an agreement whereby the King in the North would remain human but the Lord Commander would be Other-ized as a sort of bridge between the factions. None of this sounds quite right to me, but I don't know.

It's quite possible that Starks in turn have Other blood from ancient times, as discussed here and other places: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/60047-starks-others-kings-of-winter/

Just a vague speculation -- Dany's vision of the 'usurper's' (Robert's) army clad all in ice and arrayed against her -- is it possible that this will end up being a force led by Jon? Then usurper would have a double meaning, as Robert certainly fit that bill earlier, but to Dany's eyes Jon might well be one as well, despite having a stronger claim.