Who's Wylla, really?

[mambru]

It's kind of an interesting question, and could lead to clues about Jon.

The first time we hear about Wylla is when Robert asks Ned about the woman Ned had told him was the mother of Jon. We're all pretty sure she wasn't. But does that mean she was nothing to Ned?

The king grinned. "She must've been a rare wench if she could make Lord Eddard Stark forget his honor, even for an hour. You never told us what she looked like..."

Ned's mouth tightened in anger. "Nor will I. Leave it be, Robert, for the love you say you bear me. I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men."

"Gods have mercy, you scarcely knew Catelyn."

"I had taken her to wife. She was carrying my child."

Now we're sure that Ned's almost certainly lying about he and Wylla being Jon's parents. But what about his shame in that dialogue above? Is Ned completely innocent of dishonoring Catelyn? Is Honest Ned that good an improviser and liar that he could just make all that up and be convincing? IMO, his emotion over his infidelity reads as genuine - even if he's misled everyone about the result of it. So maybe Ned and Wylla really were an item.

So was she that fisherman's daughter in the Sisters, described as having gotten her father's boat in to shore with Ned in a storm after her father was washed overboard, then had a fling with Ned, and he left her with a bag of silver and a pregnancy? Maybe it's a scurrilous false rumor - but it sounds like Ned...both because of the silver (because the North isn't money-rich) and because he gave her what must've been a large part of the funds he was escaping with (there's only so many heavy bags of coins one man can carry.) Did she follow him? Did she become a camp follower of his? Did she give birth and did Ned hand off Jon to her because she conveniently happened to be lactating? What happened to Ned's own child? Did it die? And then did Ned get her a job at Starfall, where she stayed?

Or was Wylla the wetnurse that the KG hired for Lyanna, and never had anything to do with Ned until he stormed the Tower - but agreed to lie for Lyanna's sake - and successfully has managed to fool everyone at Starfall all these years that she was once Ned's lovah? Problem with that is, if the KG were serious about taking care of Lyanna's health, they'd have hired a wetnurse MONTHS before Lyanna was due (also a midwife) - just in case Lyanna gave birth prematurely. But she would have had a child of her own with her, to keep her lactating till Lyanna's babe was born. What happened to her own child? What the hell kind of a household was being run at the ToJ those last couple of months?

Myself, I'd prefer that Wylla was the wetnurse at the Tower - because we could really use SOME witness of what went down there up till Ned's arrival - and there's no trees there for Bran to peek into the past for us, otherwise. But it doesn't seem to fit.

What do youse think?

[The Bittersteel]

By claiming Jon is his own son even if he wasn't he dishonours himself and Catelyn.

[Mladen]

I think that Wylla was a servant of Daynes, and that she was sent to ToJ by Ashara, or requested by Arthur, so she would take care of Lyanna. I think she and Howland are "they" who found Ned near Lyanna.

[Leonardo]

Can't be the woman from the sisters, because Ned and Cat weren't an item by that point. Ned still had to get North and rally his lords, and only marries Cat when he comes south to bind the ties between Stark, Arryn and Tully.

This all happened at Riverrun iirc

I'm with Mladen, she was definitely a wet nurse for the Daynes and I don't think the Dayne boy is lying about that nor is he wrong.

[Heidrun]

I don't own ASOS, but I seem to remember one lad saying something to Arya about knowing Wylla or that his mother was Jon's wet nurse (anyone know of what passage I'm talking about so they can post it here)

I know I'm probably the very tiny majority here, but I WANT Jon to be Ned's bastard by some unknown woman. In a series where everyone is expected to live up to the stereotypes of their house/sigil/words/origin/bloodline, it is kind of neat that Jon has to forge his own identity because he's only got the minimal attachment to the "Stark" side and he's unbound by convention within his universe.

[Northbound2.0]

I don't own ASOS, but I seem to remember one lad saying something to Arya about knowing Wylla or that his mother was Jon's wet nurse (anyone know of what passage I'm talking about so they can post it here)

.

Don't have the passage, but that lad would be Edric Dayne.

Malden, I believe has the right of it. Walla was a servant of the Daynes. Brought to the ToJ at the request of Arthur.

[Leonardo]

I don't own ASOS, but I seem to remember one lad saying something to Arya about knowing Wylla or that his mother was Jon's wet nurse (anyone know of what passage I'm talking about so they can post it here)

I know I'm probably the very tiny majority here, but I WANT Jon to be Ned's bastard by some unknown woman. In a series where everyone is expected to live up to the stereotypes of their house/sigil/words/origin/bloodline, it is kind of neat that Jon has to forge his own identity because he's only got the minimal attachment to the "Stark" side and he's unbound by convention within his universe.

Agreed with all

And it was the Dayne boy that Arya meets while with the BWB

[Northbound2.0]

Agreed with all

And it was the Dayne boy that Arya meets while with the BWB

It doesn't matter who Jon's parents were. "Ned Stark is my father, I don't care how many swords they give me. He may take solace in the fact that he is Lyanna's son and not some random woman. He will come to terms with it and remember who and what Ned was and did for him.

Ultimately, I think he neither embraces a true Stark or Targaryen name; stays a Snow and does whatever it is going to do and be as a Snow.

[Heidrun]

True,

But for some reason I don't want him to be a secret Targaryen. Yes, I know that's the way things seem--but it hasn't been confirmed!

SInce he's already Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and will probably ascend in rank/position in some way before it's all said and done, to me it would be far more awesome if he was the son of some fishwife than veiled royalty. If he achieves what he has, it's because of his combined Stark/Targ blood. If he's not Targ, then he does it on his own.

Plus the "baby of mysterious origins = royalty" has been so overdone: King Arthur, Taran from Chronicles of Prydain, Luke Skywalker (ok, Jedi not royalty, but still), basically half of medieval epics and fairy tales ...

[A Bastard Snow]

I don't own ASOS, but I seem to remember one lad saying something to Arya about knowing Wylla or that his mother was Jon's wet nurse (anyone know of what passage I'm talking about so they can post it here)

I know I'm probably the very tiny majority here, but I WANT Jon to be Ned's bastard by some unknown woman. In a series where everyone is expected to live up to the stereotypes of their house/sigil/words/origin/bloodline, it is kind of neat that Jon has to forge his own identity because he's only got the minimal attachment to the "Stark" side and he's unbound by convention within his universe.

It was Edric Dayne, Beric's squire in the BwB.He says him and Jon are milkbrothers as they both had the same wetnurse Wylla and that Wylla is Jon's mother.Arya then says "All Dornishmen are liars".Considering Edric is several years younger then Jon he is not a reliable source of information as the only way he knows this is from people in the Dayne Household talking about it which is rather interesting.It begs the question of how many people in the Dayne household know something about Jon's past.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

I think that Wylla was a servant of Daynes, and that she was sent to ToJ by Ashara, or requested by Arthur, so she would take care of Lyanna. I think she and Howland are "they" who found Ned near Lyanna.

This is the only one that fits. She must be attractive enough for it to be credible though.

I don't own ASOS, but I seem to remember one lad saying something to Arya about knowing Wylla or that his mother was Jon's wet nurse (anyone know of what passage I'm talking about so they can post it here)

I know I'm probably the very tiny majority here, but I WANT Jon to be Ned's bastard by some unknown woman. In a series where everyone is expected to live up to the stereotypes of their house/sigil/words/origin/bloodline, it is kind of neat that Jon has to forge his own identity because he's only got the minimal attachment to the "Stark" side and he's unbound by convention within his universe.

You are in the minority, but it's not that small! It's pretty significant really.

[Leonardo]

True,

But for some reason I don't want him to be a secret Targaryen. Yes, I know that's the way things seem--but it hasn't been confirmed!

SInce he's already Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and will probably ascend in rank/position in some way before it's all said and done, to me it would be far more awesome if he was the son of some fishwife than veiled royalty. If he achieves what he has, it's because of his combined Stark/Targ blood. If he's not Targ, then he does it on his own.

Plus the "baby of mysterious origins = royalty" has been so overdone: King Arthur, Taran from Chronicles of Prydain, Luke Skywalker (ok, Jedi not royalty, but still), basically half of medieval epics and fairy tales ...

Agreed

I think the key part of his character will be staying true to his ideals and what Ned taught him, even if Ned isn't his father.

If Jon leaves the wall, he leaves it a completely different character than the one we love, or on the run. And even on the run, his top priority is to get back to the wall to defend it. People always babble about Jon dying releasing him from his vows, but even if he 'died', it's not Jon's life or word that is tied up in the wall. It's his honor, which he will gladly die for as Ned would have.

He is more compromising than Ned as well, which probably means he will live longer.

[Emerentiana_Zamora]

What the hell kind of a household was being run at the ToJ those last couple of months?

We don't really know what was going on at the ToJ, but it would be a good guess that Wylla was there. Whoever she happens to be IMO she knows who Jon's true parents are along with Ned, or she knows enough to know that she needs to lie to protect Jon's life. (Assuming r+l=j). This is the only way both she and Ned could keep up the same story. I also think that Wylla has to have some emotional connection to either Ned, Lyanna, Rhaegar, or Targs in general to lie. Otherwise why risk her life?

[Tommen's Kitten Mittens]

I'm pretty sure Ned has a bastard...it just isn't Jon.

[Mokymok]

I may be the only one to think that Ned kept always his honour till the very end and that's what got him killed. I don't think he ever had an affair with anyone in the middle of a war where he didn't know if his sister was alive or not, would he be so cold hearted that would bed some wetnurse or servant ? If Ned had something with anyone I think it would be with Ashara Dayne as is said she was extremely beautiful, and Ned was very concerned when Catelyn ever mentioned the name of Ashara, Ned would say to never mention that name again. I can only guess, that they might have been in love but nothing happened due he already having a wife with a child. Jon had to come from somewhere the wetnurse Wylla was the easiest answer.

[Ser Lepus]

It's difficult to say, with all those red herrings GRRM keeps throwing left and right. We have Lyanna, Ashara Dayne, Wylla and Septa Lemore, and we have Jon Snow, Aegon (who looks younger than he should)and even Meera Reed (the same age as Jon, she's supposed to be Howland Reed's daughter, and Howland Reed was there when Lyanna died giving birth...).

Any combination of those mothers and children is possible. For example:

Jon could be the son of Brandon and Ashara, who Ned offered to raise as his own passing him as his own, out of loyalty towards Brandon.

fAegon could be the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar, who Ashara took to Essos in secret because he looked too much like Rhaegar to be allowed to stay in Westeros.

Meera Reed could be the daughter of Ned and Wylla, who lived with her mother in Starfall until the later died and then Howland offered to foster her.

[Fanless Mace]

By claiming Jon is his own son even if he wasn't he dishonours himself and Catelyn.

This. He lied to his wife and the lie presented it's own dishonor.

As for Wylla, if there ever was such a wench, I doubt Ned banged her...but if we ever find out where whores go, we can ask her.

[XSarellaX]

I'm in the group that thinks Wylla was Jon's wetnurse at the ToJ, but I'm not so sure she was a servant of Starfall before. How would she convince the people she had lived with for years/months that she had an affair with Ned and had his child? Perhaps she was from somewhere else and Ned asked Ashara to find a place for her there when he gave her Dawn back.

Of course, one would then wonder why people don't seem to think it's strange that Ashara would care for the woman that had a bastard with the man she was supposed to be in love with.

[King Arya Is Coming]

Are we to believe that a wetnurse is privvy to secrets Ned won't even share with his closet confidante and wife. He snapped at Cat for prying too much when Cat asked about Ashara. It would make sense for Wylla to be the source for that gossip spreading. Maybe that's what she was told or what she figures to be true.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but Wylla left the north after Jon no longer needed her services. If she was at the ToJ and knows everything, would Ned let her leave and go all the way back to Dorne. If she let something slip there'd be no way to contain it.

IMO, it makes no sense for Wylla to be anything other than a for-hire individual. She knows as much about Jon's parentage as everybody else in Westereos.

[XSarellaX]

Are we to believe that a wetnurse is privvy to secrets Ned won't even share with his closet confidante and wife. He snapped at Cat for prying too much when Cat asked about Ashara. It would make sense for Wylla to be the source for that gossip spreading. Maybe that's what she was told or what she figures to be true.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but Wylla left the north after Jon no longer needed her services. If she was at the ToJ and knows everything, would Ned let her leave and go all the way back to Dorne. If she let something slip there'd be no way to contain it.

IMO, it makes no sense for Wylla to be anything other than a for-hire individual. She knows as much about Jon's parentage as everybody else in Westereos.

She may not necessarily be the wetnurse Ned sent to WF with Jon, just the one the KG picked, and then she passed as Jon's mom.

The reason I believe she is more than just a red herring is because she was brought up twice by different people in different books. If she knows nothing, wouldn't it be more elegant to mention her just the first time, and then leave us wondering if she is a real person or Ned just made the name up? Why reveal more about her and make everyone curious if it's nothhig important?

Besides, the first time we see another female with the same name (Wylla Manderly), what's basically the first thing she does? Gives us the "I Know About The Promise" awesome speech.

There's definetely something up with this girl. Wheter we will actually meet her eventually I don't know, but maybe Howland Reed can explain her participation.