Cold Hands warm heart Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Oh no , Lyanna is the mother of Arya? New today my dog Boone is the PTWP. He acts like a prince, demands like a Prince, must be a Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Then Lyanna surely is the mother of both Arya and Jon. It doesn't work like that. Wikipedia : Even at age fourteen, Jon is said to have more Stark-like features than any of his siblings. Jon has a lean build, with dark brown hair and grey eyes so dark they border on black. He is graceful and quick.[3] Tyrion Lannister notes that Jon has the traditional Stark face in everything but name— long, solemn and guarded— a face that gives nothing away. He remarks to himself that whoever Jon's mother was, she left little of herself in her son's appearance.[4] Arya Stark is said to resemble Jon the most of the Stark children If it's all just a big cover up and Ned really isn't Jon's father, why does he continue to feel such shame 14 years after the events of TOJ ? The thought of Jon filled Ned with a sense of shame, a sorrow too deep for words. I hope the boys grow up as brothers, and may my lady wife forgive me. Sounds a lot deeper than a mere regret about a lie. It strikes me more as a man covering up for his own deeds. Why not, in private at Winterfell, clear it up to his wife ? Given that Jon has that Stark look all over, and if he is Lyanna's son, why not tell Robert given he has won and defeated Targ dinasty ? Yes, Robert said "dragon spawn" upon the sight of Aegon and Rhaenys bodies but this is Lyanna's child. He can get his victory over Rhaegar by raising and claiming the son as his own. Well, yeah. Hint hint. Isn't Jon at the NW by now unlike rest of the kids in KL and Winterfell ? I think that is why he isn't mentioned. Did you read like... Anything in the thread? The initial post should be enough, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starki Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 It is a mystery until GRRM decides to reveal it. The mother's name is more emphasized as a mystery but for all we know he might suprise us with the father too. "People alluded to in the text" includes Lyanna and Rhaegar too. And Benioff and Weiss guessing it means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Silver Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Then Lyanna surely is the mother of both Arya and Jon. It doesn't work like that. Wikipedia : Even at age fourteen, Jon is said to have more Stark-like features than any of his siblings. Jon has a lean build, with dark brown hair and grey eyes so dark they border on black. He is graceful and quick.[3] Tyrion Lannister notes that Jon has the traditional Stark face in everything but name— long, solemn and guarded— a face that gives nothing away. He remarks to himself that whoever Jon's mother was, she left little of herself in her son's appearance.[4] Arya Stark is said to resemble Jon the most of the Stark children Lol, Tyrion only thinks that there's nothing left of Jon Snow's mother in his face, because he believes that Ned is his father. If it's all just a big cover up and Ned really isn't Jon's father, why does he continue to feel such shame 14 years after the events of TOJ ? The thought of Jon filled Ned with a sense of shame, a sorrow too deep for words. I hope the boys grow up as brothers, and may my lady wife forgive me. Sounds a lot deeper than a mere regret about a lie. It strikes me more as a man covering up for his own deeds. Why not, in private at Winterfell, clear it up to his wife ? Given that Jon has that Stark look all over, and if he is Lyanna's son, why not tell Robert given he has won and defeated Targ dinasty ? Yes, Robert said "dragon spawn" upon the sight of Aegon and Rhaenys bodies but this is Lyanna's child. He can get his victory over Rhaegar by raising and claiming the son as his own. For a man as honourable as Ned making and keeping a promise to his sister while having to lie to his wife (and ot his nephew) must be very regrettable. He's not going to break that promise, and put Jon's life (and his entire family's existence for having concealed a Targaryen heir from Robert). It is a mystery until GRRM decides to reveal it. The mother's name is more emphasized as a mystery but for all we know he might suprise us with the father too. "People alluded to in the text" includes Lyanna and Rhaegar too. And Benioff and Weiss guessing it means nothing GRRM has confirmed that D&D were correct (having closely read the text): http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-r-r-martin-outtakes-from-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140428?page=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starki Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Did you read like... Anything in the thread? The initial post should be enough, though. The fact this theory is still on debate proves that it's just that...a theory until it gets proved or disproved by the books. Anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCrannogman Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Does it matter that GRRM always talks about finding out who the mother is? If Ned is really the father we have a Stark but on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 The fact this theory is still on debate proves that it's just that...a theory until it gets proved or disproved by the books. Anyway... Yes, a theory, a very strong one. Is there any point in saying that it's not spelled out in the books? If it were, why would we be discussing it at all. To be honest, it's also not spelled out that Roose Bolton killed Robb. So yes, Roose killing Robb is a theory as well. Also, gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starki Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Lol, Tyrion only thinks that there's nothing left of Jon Snow's mother in his face, because he believes that Ned is his father. For a man as honourable as Ned making and keeping a promise to his sister while having to lie to his wife (and ot his nephew) must be very regrettable. He's not going to break that promise, and put Jon's life (and his entire family's existence for having concealed a Targaryen heir from Robert). GRRM has confirmed that D&D were correct (having closely read the text): http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-r-r-martin-outtakes-from-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140428?page=2 LOL level of debate aside..Tyrion can clearly see Jon has the features of his father, and not the mother. Children in AGOT tend to look a lot like the mother or the father. Speaking of heirs...do we know Lyanna didn't conceive with the womanizing Robert before Rhaegar came along ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Silver Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Does it matter that GRRM always talks about finding out who the mother is? If Ned is really the father we have a Stark but on the other side. I think GRRM only has to emphasize that finding out who Jon's mother will change things for Jon, because it is highly unlikely that Ned and Lyanna took a page out of that particular Targaryen book... :smileysex: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCrannogman Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Agree. But any chance Lyanna is not mom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Silver Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 LOL level of debate aside..Tyrion can clearly see Jon has the features of his father, and not the mother. Children in AGOT tend to look a lot like the mother or the father. Speaking of heirs...do we know Lyanna didn't conceive with the womanizing Robert before Rhaegar came along ? Ned recalls discussions that he's had with Lyanna regarding Robert's whoring, and Ned also acknowledges to Lyanna that Robert has fathered a bastard (Mya Stone) in the Vale. Regarding Robert's whoring, Lyanna says: "Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature." It doesn't sound like Lyanna had any premarital relations with Robert (or else why would Ned hide said offspring from Robert?). Tyrion never met Lyanna, but that doesn't mean that Jon doesn't share her features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starki Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Yes, a theory, a very strong one. Is there any point in saying that it's not spelled out in the books? If it were, why would we be discussing it at all. To be honest, it's also not spelled out that Roose Bolton killed Robb. So yes, Roose killing Robb is a theory as well. Also, gravity. It's not spelled out and until it is proven, other theories can be presented also. A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood steps up to Robb, saying "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." .Roose often wears black ringmail and a spotted pink cloak.[3] He also owns a suit of dark grey plate armor over a quilted tunic of blood-red leather. Its rondels are shaped like human heads whose mouths are open in agony. Its helmet has streamers of red silk which flutter in the wind. With it is usually a pink woolen cloak embroidered with droplets of blood. Someone dressed up as Roose Bolton and framed him ? Gravity has been well researched and scientists agree on it. Not many people today would contest it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 LOL level of debate aside..Tyrion can clearly see Jon has the features of his father, and not the mother. Children in AGOT tend to look a lot like the mother or the father. Speaking of heirs...do we know Lyanna didn't conceive with the womanizing Robert before Rhaegar came along ? Really, a sincere question: Have you read any of the FAQs on page one of this thread? If you think that last line a legitimate question, you need to review the timeline, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Silver Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Agree. But any chance Lyanna is not mom? I'd say there's next to none. IIRC, Cat remembers just how wroth Ned was with her when she asked him about Jon's mother. He says that Jon is his blood and that's all she needs to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starki Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Ned recalls discussions that he's had with Lyanna regarding Robert's whoring, and Ned also acknowledges to Lyanna that Robert has fathered a bastard (Mya Stone) in the Vale. Regarding Robert's whoring, Lyanna says: "Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature." It doesn't sound like Lyanna had any premarital relations with Robert (or else why would Ned hide said offspring from Robert?). Tyrion never met Lyanna, but that doesn't mean that Jon doesn't share her features. The discussions before the bethrotal of Lyanna to Robert ? What makes us think, given how much he cared about her, didn't impregnate her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Silver Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 The discussions before the bethrotal of Lyanna to Robert ? What makes us think, given how much he cared about her, didn't impregnate her ? Because Lyanna's not in the Vale with Robert? See MtnLion's comment about reviewing the timeline. Ned brings the betrothal to his father at Winterfell. Robert does not accompany him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 It's not spelled out and until it is proven, other theories can be presented also. A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood steps up to Robb, saying "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." .Roose often wears black ringmail and a spotted pink cloak.[3] He also owns a suit of dark grey plate armor over a quilted tunic of blood-red leather. Its rondels are shaped like human heads whose mouths are open in agony. Its helmet has streamers of red silk which flutter in the wind. With it is usually a pink woolen cloak embroidered with droplets of blood. Someone dressed up as Roose Bolton and framed him ? Gravity has been well researched and scientists agree on it. Not many people today would contest it. And, if someone point blank thinks or says that Jon is Layana's and Rhaegar's child after they married, you would most likely continue in denial, since it is most likely an unreliable narrator? There is a wealth of information on page one, and much too many things make too much sense to ignore this theory. What we do know is that whatever someone says in the text about any of the mysteries has been wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 The discussions before the bethrotal of Lyanna to Robert ? What makes us think, given how much he cared about her, didn't impregnate her ? When one knows that Daenerys was conceived no later than a fortnight before the fall of King's Landing and that she was born 8 to 9 months after Jon was born and she was born nine months after her mother fled to Dragonstone, it becomes an impossibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Ten bucks says Faegon's coin lands on the wrong side. Nah. When RLJ gets revealed, after everybody is celebrating they were right, it will be revealed that Jon is not only son of Rhaegar's but grandchild of Aerys II, the Mad King... Then everybody will be wishing they were wrong. Because Lyanna's not in the Vale with Robert? See MtnLion's comment about reviewing the timeline. Ned brings the betrothal to his father at Winterfell. Robert does not accompany him. Yep. With a friend we commented if Robert had actually meet Lyanna before that and he only fooled himself into thinking something like "Oi, Ned? You had a sister? Great! I'll marry her, we'll love each other and we will be real brothers forever!!" before actually meet her. And Ned agreed. None of them considered Lyanna's feelings on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ser charles candle Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Nah. When RLJ gets revealed, after everybody is celebrating they were right, it will be revealed that Jon is not only son of Rhaegar's but grandchild of Aerys II, the Mad King... Then everybody will be wishing they were wrong.I doubt Jon would embrace his targaryen side. Let alone even try to sit on the iron throne. He wouldn't break his vows and even if the nw fell he wouldn't lose sight on the real enemy. I would wager he will never go below winterfell, its the perfect stronghold against the otgers if they breach the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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