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bear and the maiden fair

I have a speculation about Brienne of Tarth

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Brienne is one of my favourite female characters in the book, I love all the quests she has went on in her storyline, I love the action and I just love getting inside her head. Many people may disagree but I find Brienne I very fascinating character although I know she has flaws. Like the times she has been so stubborn and too honourable and she refused to see sense thus creating more Aggro for her. That being said today I have just speculated about something to do with Brienne.

Well when she was captured by 'lady stoneheart' I know that she was asked to either go back to Jaime lannister and kill him, or the other option was to hang. She wouldn't decide and was gonna be hung. Now I may be wrong about this but when she turns up at pennytree (the camp) she asks Jaime to come with her and rescue Sansa with her because the hound has kidnapped her and is going to kill her. I never thought anything of it-then I realised that when she travelled with Meribald they bumped into an elder brother on the quiet isle who explained that the hound is dead. So now she must know that the hound is dead and that Sansa is not at all with the hound because she can't be right?

So then why does brienne say to Jaime weeks or months later when she turns up at the camp that they need to rescue the lady Sansa from the hound, if she's realised or at least believes the hound to be dead. So my speculation is that although brienne has always been honourable and I do love how caring she is, is she leading Jaime to his death. I don't want it to be true but I'm just wondering is it a possibility that Brienne has made a deal with the lady stoneheart, to bring Jaime to her. So will Jaime even survive the next book?

I don't want it to happen and I don't really think that's what's going to happen but it just made me think is all. So what's your views on Jaime and briennes new quest? What do you think will happen in TWOW book?

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It's pretty obvious she's taking Jaime to UnCat, probably in order to spare Pod and ser Hyle. What happens is dependant on whether Jaime figures out something's up (Brienne's not exactly world's best liar) or maybe Brienne tells him the truth before they reach the Brotherhood.



In any case I doubt Jaime's going down yet - it would be a bit anticlimatic end for him and he's still the most obvious candidate for valonqar. Brienne might die though, which would be hearthrending.



Oh and the Hound's probably still kicking (see Gravedigger), but Brienne doesn't know that...


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Yeah that's the theory that he's the grave-digger where the elder brothers live, something like the supposedly found him half-dying and took him in and made him repent his sins (I'm half guessing lol). But yeah that's a interesting theory and I too, think that the Hound is probably still kicking.

But yeah I'm literally a chapter away from the end of ADWD and honestly the other day as I was reading I must have had my mind elsewhere because it just popped up in my mind about Brienne. Yeah my opinion is that they will probably get halfway through the quest to go back to the lady stoneheart and company, and Jaime will probably notice that Brienne isn't being herself or is taking alternate routes from where Jaime thinks they're both going. Then he will work the rest out or Brienne will confess and/or both.

Yeah I agree with you, brienne, even though she is being pushed to the limit and people's lives are in grave danger, she is too honourable to lie. Especially to Jaime. I think both persons were completely lost in their own insecurities and fears and felt a lot of pressure before they met each other. I think they have helped each other a lot through their journeys and have changed each other-for the better. Basically they're an awesome team and I don't want that to be spoiled by briennes death or anything (I don't think GRRM would kill off Jaime either. The thoughts unsavoury).

I'm hoping that her confession of her real mission by lady stoneheart will come out, soon enough for her and Jaime to both work some sort of plan out. I'm hoping anyway. Again thanks for your views :)

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Jaime and Brienne are great foils for each other. Part of the reason I'm hoping for Brienne's survival is because it would give validation to her as a character in her own right: sometimes it feels like she's just an extension of Jaime, his conscience or sounding board or whatever. Having her die as a plot device in Jaime's story arc would be especially unfortunate.



I'm trying to convince myself that GRRM wouldn't have invested so many dead trees into Brienne's story in Feast, just to kill her off in the next chapter she appears in, but you know... :worried:


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Yeah they are a great suit but I think that GRRM if he doesn't kill her off (don't think he will) will definitely delve deeper into Brienne as a whole so she becomes a fully fledged, stand-alone POV in her own right like you said. I do think that in feast GRRM let us delve deeper into briennes thought process and her past which rounded her character out as a whole, and for me, made me love brienne as a woman/warrior/knight and respect her so much more. And I started gaining more feelings for her (not in that way lol) character and she became someone i could see myself relating to :) in some ways I guess. I think her character does stand alone but it would be nice to see another side to her that isn't always an extension of Jaime you know. I agree with you there whole heartedly.

Yeah it would sort of open up a big void in Jaime's story arc if Brienne was killed off. Some people find brienne to be a good character but not one they would be sad about if she died. Well I think personally that she will play even more of an important role in the new book. So all the brienne haters can kiss my A** (pardon the French) but yeah I really love brienne I think she's a brilliant character, and yes I think SOME or her chapters dragged in AFFC but none the less that does not make her a boring character. In my opinion. But yeah I'm glad you appreciate brienne as much as I do honesty :).

I think a lot of the coolest action scenes in the novel will happen in Jaime and Briennes chapters, especially as the truth starts to reveal itself about her 'quest'. I just really enjoy the 2 characters and what their storylines will hold for each other in the next book. Yeah again I don think george would kill her off because for me, Brienne is one of the most unique characters and is in one of the most unpredictable situations right now. And we all know how george feeds off of his characters getting themselves into unpredictable situations. In the next book I hope he goes all out on Jaime and brienne chapters :P

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I don't think anyone actually hates Brienne, but her POVs are a bit painful, because we KNOW she was going in circles, plus the super-disturbing and trigger-y confrontation with Biter. *shudder* I found her chapters fascinating on meta level, but in the story they would make more sense if Brienne has more roles to fulfill than the sacrifice for someone else's characterisation.



The scary thing is, having Brienne die would make so much sense for Jaime's story arc. He has been broken down and remoulded, losing the woman he sees as an epitome of honour and chivalry could be the making of him, or shatter him completely and prove that his attempts of rebuilding himself were an empty fancy and there is no redemption for the likes of him. It could be brilliant, but it would reduce Brienne to the extent that she would cease to matter as anything more than a facet of Jaime's (admittedly fascinating) personality.



OTOH, I can actually see her surviving the series (which Jaime almost certainly won't) and living, well not happily ever after, but as a wiser and better person for everything that she has endured and with hopes of actually achieving something great before the end. It might not make for such a great scene, but would be eventually more satisfying, I think.



Also, we don't talk about fanfiction here, but I think it's rather telling that nobody ever writes about just Brienne or pairs her with random characters. It's always JaimeandBrienne.


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Yeah I never thought of it like that before, I think either way whether George kills her off or not it will make for jaimes story arc to be so interesting. Just like you I think that if GRRM kills Brienne off Jaime will be really depressed, wallow in his depressive state and maybe become more of a rageful person. Thus ending up getting himself killed or indeed (I know this is to do with another theory but just bare with me lol) even end up killing Cersei (if execution doesn't not become of her trial) because he's so enraged he needs to take it out on someone. He would probably become really insecure about himself and best himself up about the situation if briennes is killed off. That's me just wingin it just trying to put my head Into the scenario haha. But yeah I don't think she will he killed off and I agree and think she could possibly survive the series. It will be a great learning curve for her character and I would love to see her grow more as a person :).

Yeah I agree it was painful to see her basically hunting a lost cause because she was going around in circles never to find catelyns children :( which is kind of sad because most of briennes turmoil could have been avoided if she had of known about Sansa being with little finger and arya being halfway across the world. But yeah I agree In a way brienne has been made solely for the extension and remoulding of Jaimes character and so we can see a totally different side of him. But I do believe that now GRRM is trying to remould brienne to make her as fleshed out as possible and to hopefully whatever happens to her and Jaime for her to be quite an independent character. Someone we can look up to in ways we might never have imagined you know?

Yeah It's frightening to think but he death may be a new opening for other characters storylines and the main storyline as a whole. As in turn, it could trigger more major events. Like a domino effect of sorts. But I'm hoping she isn't killed off and that Jaime survives. But hey this GRRM we're talking about! We can't have our cake and eat it most the time lol. Also I hope that if one of them perishes I hope that the one that's left becomes as you said more chivalrous and makes a even bigger change around in a good way.

Haha yeah I've glanced awkwardly at some of these fictions and yeah some steamy stuff sometimes entails between brienne and Jaime haha what I cannot say, because I would not like to repeat haha :P. Fan fiction can be an interesting world at times I suppose haha crazy, but interesting :)

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Yeah I would have realised it at the time and remembered it if I didn't put down the book for about a month (don't ask me why lol I'm a massive reader and I think it had something to do with me reading 5 books at the same time as each other lol). So by the time I picked it back up I had forgot all about the whole Brienne betraying Jaime thing. But yeah hopefully she resolves the matter somehow before they both get hurt.

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Yeah, I still don't see her betraying Jaime considering she is in love with him. GRRM has something interesting in mind for this scenario I'm sure...


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It's pretty obvious she's taking Jaime to UnCat, probably in order to spare Pod and ser Hyle. What happens is dependant on whether Jaime figures out something's up (Brienne's not exactly world's best liar) or maybe Brienne tells him the truth before they reach the Brotherhood.

In any case I doubt Jaime's going down yet - it would be a bit anticlimatic end for him and he's still the most obvious candidate for valonqar. Brienne might die though, which would be hearthrending.

Oh and the Hound's probably still kicking (see Gravedigger), but Brienne doesn't know that...

Oh you are probably correct, but I'll not be happy until every Lannister is dead.

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I agree with what others here have said in that Jaimie see's Brienne as what he strived to become.. The archetypical chivalrous and honourable knight, though like he admitted to her in the baths, all he wanted was to be Arthur Dayne and somewhere along the way became the Smiling Knight.



I think it would be very typical of GRRM's brutal style to tear that down, and kill off Brienne.. possibly right in front of him. Taking away his tool for finding redemption within himself, too.. I kind of hope this makes him lapse, and revert a little to his old stone-hearted self (see what i did there..) and this could trigger 'valonqar-jaimie'.. Or so I hope.


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Yeah, I still don't see her betraying Jaime considering she is in love with him. GRRM has something interesting in mind for this scenario I'm sure...

:agree:

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Considering how many times Jaime Lannister has gone out of his way to save her life before, this will be another instance, also a showdown with Lady Stoneheart and her men is likely. One of them may get injured in the process, but i think it will be a turning point in their relationship, but sadly in Brienne's case, i believe still platonically ;)


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I know no one's replied to this thread in a while, but I just wanted to mention... When I first read this chapter, my first thought was that Brienne had turned into UnBrienne, as she was acting so weird and possessed.

But I'm glad everyone thinks she's alive. She's one of my favorite characters too.

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