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How would you rate episode 405?

How would you rate episode 405?  

575 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      4
    • 2
      6
    • 3
      6
    • 4
      10
    • 5
      41
    • 6
      71
    • 7
      139
    • 8
      163
    • 9
      97
    • 10
      38


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Sorry for any duplication... I have to get to work sometime today, so I didn't read every preceding post.



But, I can't see how this is the worst episode of the four seasons, or how it was all pointless. While it may have been understated or subtle, there was a ton of stuff for both book-readers and Unsullied.



Cercie is not being nice, she's trying to manipulate the judges. She's holding the "Queen-ship" over the Tyrell's heads so Mace will judge her way.



We got the Jon Arryn "murder mystery" solved (the main reason Ned went to King's Landing in the first place, other than his devotion to his friend, Robert).



Sansa is out of the frying pan and jumped right into the fire!



The Unsullied don't know if Oberyn is truly sated by Tywin's peace offering (writing poetry), or what.



Jon is one of the few true "good-guys", so we know that ain't going to end well if every other "good" character's fate is any indication.



Dany is going to get side-tracked in the goings-on of Slaver's Bay, and we know what happens to those cities she "liberates" once she leaves. (As Tywin put it, conquering is not the same as ruling.)



As a book-reader, I was surprised by Locke's fate. I was sure he would be a part of the ending of ADWD.



Lysa screaming... and did Robin throw the "beautiful present" out the moon door?!?



I too only gave this a 7 rating, but a king can't die every episode. However, I would argue that this episode was jam-packed.



Enjoying this season as a whole the most, so far.

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NORTH: I'm usually not a purist when it comes to creating alternative plot lines in the show. Hence, I had high hopes for Locke and his new arc. So, this was anti-climatic. Why on Earth was he introduced into the NW plot-line only to be killed in the next episode? So, that was badly done.

Another northern irrationality in this episode was Jon's behaviour at Craster's keep. He never even asked the women if Bran and his group were there? So, he suspected Bran could be there, but he never asked. Also, after burning the CK none of the brothers of the NW gathered any intelligence from the women. Lame. However, Carl's death was awesome. Jon/Ghost reunion could have been more emotional. Bran the killer! A very interesting development there.

DAENERYS: What the hell is going on with Emilia Clarke's acting? Does she have a speech impediment and has to say everything so artificially and in such a slow pace?

THE VALE: The plot there was too rushed. Way too rushed. And a lot of foreshadowing in this and the previous episodes. The Moongate scene was too obviously filmed in the same gorge where we met the Thenns, so not a good work there. And I expected Lysa to change after her wedding night. I would have liked to see the Fingers. I liked Sweetrobin though.

KING'S LANDING: It was difficult to follow all invented plot-lines. Show Cersei differs so much from the book Cersei and, try as I might, I can see no point in that. Suddenly, Tywin and Cersei are on the same page in everything. What about what we saw last season? Another not so logical development. OK. One could argue she wants to sway all the judges, but still ... Lannisters have no golden cow to milk? That's an important novelty. Ties well with the introduction of the Iron Bank, but I am not sure how cannon is that. I have to trust D&D on this. Still no Kattleblacks. Why? And pls do not say it's a budget thing. They kept Locke in for half a season for no reason.

BRIENNE/POD: Funny filler.

ARYA/HOUND: Pointless filer. We know all the points they made. No need to hammer them again.

I love this show and I hope this trend does not continue. 5/10 (the worst mark I've ever given).

I don't get why people keep saying this?

How could Jon have known Bran was at Craster's? No one told him and he didn't even see him there?

Jon knew Bran had gone North, not at Craster's. Although, I do find it odd that Karl never taunted Jon with capturing Bran during their duel.

Edited by ~DarkHorse~

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I give this episode a 5/10.

This is my second lowest rating this season so far, tying with the Jaime-Cersei rape scene. I am really disappointed with this season. I hope the remaining episodes are a lot better than what we've seen so far. There have been some stand-out scenes, but there have been even more "bad" scenes in my opinion.

Keeping it positive, I loved the Vale scenes. Sweetrobin is just how I imagined him to be. The tension between Sansa and Lysa was palpable. Great acting by all, and nicely written as well.

Rory McCann gets the greatest lines in the show. I think he personifies the Hound perfectly, and I love that they're keeping him longer. This is one of the (few!) changes I really enjoy.

Pod and Brienne was amusing as ever. I'm glad that the show got a few laughs out of me last night. Comic relief is good.

I hated ALL of the Cersei scenes, she is very out-of-character here, which I attribute to bad writing and not bad acting - Lena Headey is a terrific Cersei. No Stannis and very little Daenerys, just more invented scenes. I had written in a thread for the last episode that Bran-Jon would be a miss, and I wasn't disappointed at all... but I hate the entire thing that is going on at Craster's - fluff and filler isn't my style.

Usually, I watch the episodes twice and then come to the forums to discuss.. last night I simply went to bed. :(

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I gave the episode an 8 because we finally got the Jon arryn info and the Starks had their most positive episode since Ned was around. Bran gaining control of Hodor to annihilate Locke was intriguing. Dany's struggle with liberation is important because she sees the big picture rather than forcing her way to westeros ill-equipped. I wish they would have showed Dario taking the Myranese navy. All in all, I don't understand how some of you guys felt this was a bad episode.

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Isn't it?

I got a buddy who's lost as all hell, but he deserves it so I don't pity him. Most of my show-watching friends are still treading water, they just gotta bear with all the non-action scenes.

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does make me laugh how book readers want the show to be more subtle, so when they subtly show cersei influencing the jury they get mad because they dont understand lol.

What YOU don't understand is that book Cersei would never do this. She is not a subtle person, and she isn't going to kiss the ass of the Martells and Tyrells to get the sentencing that she wants. Cersei doesn't give a shit what they think. She is the Queen.

PS: I don't "want" the show to be "more subtle" in fact I don't even care about that. The best scenes in this show are when things are explained outright ie: Lysa and LF murdering Jon Arryn. Since you seem to know what book readers think why don't you try picking one up? :dunno:

Edited by Lady of Dragonstone

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I got a buddy who's lost as all hell, but he deserves it so I don't pity him. Most of my show-watching friends are still treading water, they just gotta bear with all the non-action scenes.

I usually have to watch each episode twice to make sure I pick up on all of the dialogue, but overall it's not very hard to follow. It's not calculus :-)

To be honest, I'm glad I never read the books so I can truly enjoy the show as it's own entity. Plus, I have too many books in my queue as it is.

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Cersei was working the judges to make them vote against Tyrion. She wasn't trying to be friendly. People complain when the show isn't subtle, but when it is subtle, they don't get it haha

ya like there was no personal agenda involving her convo with oberyn. Like seriously if people dont get that she is just scheming the hell out of everyone including her father then I dont know what else people would want d&d to do? She is doing it all for her cause. She is getting people to sympathize.

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The Locke stuff in this episode was poorly done. First he uses his ninja stealth skills to find exactly where they are keeping the kids. Then he decides to grab Bran and make a run for it? What was his end game here, take him out to the woods and kill him? If he was going to do that he should have just did it in the tent. His other option would be to take Bran back to the Dreadfort which would have been impossible to do alone.



He also leaves Hodor & Co. alive so they can tell the NW exactly what happened.



As mentioned above Jon went there looking for Bran but didn't bother to ask anyone if they had seen him.



I doubt mind the show wanting to add some of their own side story lines but it need to put effort into it.


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What YOU don't understand is that book Cersei would never do this. She is not a subtle person, and she isn't going to kiss the ass of the Martells and Tyrells to get the sentencing that she wants. Cersei doesn't give a shit what they think. She is the Queen.

PS: I don't "want" the show to be "more subtle" in fact I don't even care about that. The best scenes in this show are when things are explained outright ie: Lysa and LF murdering Jon Arryn. Since you seem to know what book readers think why don't you try picking one up? :dunno:

you as a reader get to get inside her head to know what she would or would not do. Show viewers dont have that perspective. Therefore, they have to do things like this to inform the viewer of what she is really trying to accomplish. In the books there were some actions that she took that were out of character but her POVs let the reader know why she did them. You dont have that luxury with a show. Edited by W1NT3RF3LL

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you as a reader get to get inside her head to know what she would or would not do. Show viewers dont have that perspective. Therefore, they have to do things like this to inform the viewer of what she is really trying to do. In the books there were some actions that she took that were out of character but her POVs let the reader know why she did them. You dont have that luxury with a show.

I completely agree, which is why I'm not sure why I was attacked for my review. I have a different perspective than others who only watch the show. In fact, any and all fans have different perspectives of the show and the book. I never said she was not trying to manipulate the judges, only that I thought it was out of character and I did not like it. More power to anyone who enjoyed it. I can fully understand context clues. Trust me, "I GET IT"

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The Locke stuff in this episode was poorly done. First he uses his ninja stealth skills to find exactly where they are keeping the kids. Then he decides to grab Bran and make a run for it? What was his end game here, take him out to the woods and kill him? If he was going to do that he should have just did it in the tent. His other option would be to take Bran back to the Dreadfort which would have been impossible to do alone.

He also leaves Hodor & Co. alive so they can tell the NW exactly what happened.

As mentioned above Jon went there looking for Bran but didn't bother to ask anyone if they had seen him.

I doubt mind the show wanting to add some of their own side story lines but it need to put effort into it.

Yeah and you figure Craters Women would have mentioned the captives being held in the shed/tent :dunno: you know before Jon burned it down and shit and one of them was Brandon Stark. They had to remember Jon from the last time he was there and when the dire wolf showed and made nice nice with him it should have been a dead giveaway that they were kin.

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Positive


  • The Eerie Eirie - Didn't mind the Jon Arryn resolution. Lysa isn't going to have many more opportunities for that info dump. It was also refreshing to have someone besides Baelish give an info dump on the Baelish machinations. Lysa and Robin suitably deranged.
  • Cersei/Tywin - Really liked the scene but have a few reservations (Power balance between Tywin and Cersei, Lannisters suddenly bankrupt - would have been more believable to say 'The war has stopped all gold for over a year')
  • The Dog and the Wolf - Definite plus. Beric and Thoros is justified in show canon and is no doubt a foreshadowing of their reappearance.
  • Lysa/Sansa - Yep. Crazy level just hit '11'.
  • Cersei/Oberyn - solid scene and a satisfying amount of backstory/info
  • Crasters - I quite liked this sequence but it falls short of being 'excellent'. I was a little underwhelmed by the fighting and the whole 'Bran sees Jon but decides to leave'. The second point worked at Queenscrown but didn't work here. Otherwise it generally resolved the filler material quite well - apart from the Locke storyline. The way that was truncated was, in the words of the great man "A shameful fucking performance." Only just scrapes a '+ve'



Negative


  • Meereen - The whole thing was just 'off'. Jorah not pressing for a departure? The "How can I rule 7 Kingdoms if I can't rule Slaver's Bay" line was different from the trailer wasn't it? "If I can't rule 1 city" The line was delivered after a quick cut to behind her so I can't help thinking it was a post-production edit. Her whole plan has been to 'Conquer Slavers Bay'? When was that ever demonstrated? She left governors in charge at Astapor? When was that explained? There was just so much WTF with this scene. Also, as others have mentioned, the ships Daario has taken suggests that Victarion's story may be cut. I will reserve judgement but am disappointed.
  • Jojen's visions - I quite liked it and found it interesting.



Neutral


  • Cersei/Marg - On the face of it a good scene, but the exchange flies in the face of book Cersei's character so much I was unable to be immersed in the scene. Did they recast Headey into a new role?
  • Bloody Gate - Problematic geography but allowed for an info dump on the Vale.
  • Pod/Brienne - 'OK' but just 'OK'


All up it wasn't fantastic but not too bad either. I think when I do a S4 rewatch this Ep might earn an 8 but I just can't really give it that at the moment. Its almost there but not quite. So 7 it is.



Ep1: 8- Ep2: 8+ Ep3: 7 Ep4: 7+ Ep5: 7+


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I gave it a 9, but maybe should have given it an 8.



For me, they start at 10 (I LOVE THIS STORY!), then I downtick for things I don't like, and uptick for thinks I really like.



Downticks this time: Lysa Arryn's too quick reveal of Jon Arryn's murder (didn't mind it being in this episode, just thought it was hard to notice with enough attention); Tywin saying they were out of gold for three years (don't buy it!); Olenna being gone from KL; and Lysa Arryn telling Sweetrobin show Sansa was and that she killed Jon Arryn. Just plain stupid!



Upticks: Oberyn' saying he has 8 daughters (YES! Don't want any cutting out of characters like they did with teh Tyrells!); Hound and Arya talking about Syrio, playing with audience on whether he could be alive or not (fun!); successful resolution of Craster Keep plot, I hated it last week, but it turned out alright.

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I gave it a 7 (because of the Vale and Craster scenes)



In comparison to the other episodes it just seemed to be missing something? Although, I think the Craster's keep business was over-hyped (particularly Locke) and that didn't help.



what I liked-



The 'Oh shit' face from Littlefinger as Lysa comes in with a septon and Sansa's 'urgh' expression at hearing her screams.



Jon vs Karl- I love how they didn't go with the 'hero mops the floor with the bad guy' approach to make Jon look like a bamf. It was nice seeing one of the girls get their revenge and showed Jon to be a hero in another way- actually caring about the daughters/wives.



Jon/Bran near miss- I usually moan about Stark 'almost encounters' but they handled this one really well. Bran staring longingly at Jon, wanting to see his brother but knowing his duty is elsewhere. Having him make the choice not to reunite with Jon was allot better than a cruel twist of fate scenario and added to his character development. It really empathised the parallels between Jon and Bran at having to put their duty before their love/family.



Arya adding Walder Frey to her list. :devil:



"I've missed you boy" :wub:



Besides from the Craster's keep and Vale scenes the rest was just 'meh' but still good.



what I didn't like-



Cersei being manipulative and having a good reason for refusing to pay the Iron Bank- I know allot of people like Cersei being more cunning and sympathetic as opposed to her villainous book persona but I love dumb bitch Cersei, she is funny but still dangerous.



Locke- As much as I love the irony behind Bran being the one to kill the man who crippled the man who crippled him (lots of twisted karma!) I think his death was underwhelming.



Most impressive acting of the episode for me- Sophie Turner (Sansa) during the Cray Cray Aunt scene and Thomas Brodie-Sangster (Jojen) being all wisely creepy! I could literally feel Sansa's building panic with the tears gathering in her eyes and got goose bumps at the dark look from Jojen as he said "I saw you die tonight." Very impressive!


Edited by ~DarkHorse~

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I was overall still entertained by this week's episode, but it was to me the weakest of this season so far. I tend to favor character development moments over scenes that just serve to move the plot forward, and while this week did have many of said character moments, some of them just didn't deliver in the manner that I've grown accustomed to with this show. I gave it a 6: not bad, but not great either.



What worked for me:


  • Crazy Lysa with both Peter and Sansa - Kate Dickie is delivering one hell of a performance! She's so convincing when bringing the crazy that it makes me a tad physically anxious to the point of nearly being uncomfortable to watch her. Now that's acting!
  • Arya - Hound scenes - I love the dynamic between these two. I disagree with the notion that their scenes this week had no point. To me, the scenes really drove home the fact that these two, while having a grudging respect for each other, are not allies. Loved the way that Arya casually turned her back on the Hound before uttering his name as the last on her list. As if to say that she had no reason to fear him, and also let him know that she hadn't forgiven nor forgotten his murder of her friend. Loved the look of panic on the Hound's face when he woke up to find Arya missing. Every scene with Maisie and Rory together is something I treasure. Extra bonus points for the extremely cool to watch "waterdancing."
  • Brienne - Pod - wonderful character and relationship building moments between these two. Their scenes were funny, touching, and awkward as hell all at the same time. Perfectly realized and portrayed to my mind.

What didn't work for me:


  • Dany - Jorah - I don't think that Emilia Clarke is a bad actress overall: sometimes she totally nails Daenerys, particularly in moments where she's required to show some vulnerability. This week, unfortunately, was certainly not one of her better moments... What a stinker of a scene, her line delivery was completely and bizarrely off. The only saving grace was Iain Glen's performance as Jorah. Nice to see that they finally remembered his character still existed and he actually got a few lines. For someone who is supposed to be Dany's most trusted adviser and staunchest ally, he's been little more than a glorified extra this season. What a waste!
  • Cersei - everyone - This is not the Cersei that I've come to know and loathe/love. I understand what they were going for, as far as having her character trying to influence the judges in Tyrion's trial, however, it came off as being a totally out of character move for Cersei to have embarked upon, and a ridiculously transparent attempt at manipulation at that. Total thumbs down from me, not for the acting, but for the entire stupid premise.
  • Peter - Sansa's walk into the Vale - This scene rang totally false and seemed to serve merely as an excuse to film some impressive shots of the Bloody Gate. If Littlefinger is supposedly so damn clever, why is he letting Sansa proceed so long into her march into the Vale with her Tully hair on full display? What happened to the horses/mules? It seems utterly ridiculous that Lord Baelish would be walking so far on foot when he's supposed to be at this point a fairly powerful man qualified to win the hand of Lady Arryn in marriage.


The action scenes at Craster's were pretty well acted and realized, but these scenes posed nothing unexpected beyond Locke's death. Bran's warging of Hodor was well done and suitably creepy, as was Jojen's delivery of his prophecy of Karl's death, but there ultimately wasn't much in the way of suspense here, was there? I mean, was anyone really expecting the mutineers to carry the day? Not a bad conclusion to the episode, but not exactly revelatory either.


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