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[Book Spoilers] EP405 Discussion

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I gotta say I feel bad for Hodor. I wish they could have escaped without Bran warging Hodor. Hodor with Locke's blood on his hand made me very sad for Hodor. That really was a violation of Hodor as a person, and it was so different from Bran accidentally warging him to calm him down at Queenscrown. :(

but there was a fight scene where bran warged hodor in order to be able to fight. and the show hasn't shown that hodor feels violated by it so i suppose it's not so bad. tbh, i don't know how they would show that since he can only say hodor and we aren't in his mind.

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Problem is, they have exactly three chapters to cover until they catch up (one of them a meaningless travelogue) and fifteen episodes to do it in. Unless they plan on Bran being absent from the narrative multiple episodes at a time, they will either have to invent a whole lot of new material or draw heavily from his story in The Winds of Winter well ahead of the other characters.

Why not just have him sit out a season, ala Rickon.

As I recall there is also a bit in the Dance of Dragons war were a Lannister steals a big percentage of the realms wealth for "safe" keeping. That could be how they were holding on.

No, some of the royal treasury was sent to the Rock for safe keeping. There was no theft.

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But why why why are they making Cersei sympathetic seriously she is the original Ice Queen; she is suggesting Margery marry Tommen and is agreeing to still to marry Loras? and now the Lannister's gold is dry?



Why make the entire set up of Locke for him to simply die? Honestly I wanted a better death for him and the whole thing with Hodor that was something Bran guarded he didn't even want to share that with anyone :(.



With the exception of the reunion of Jon & Ghost; this episode was meh... next weeks looks like it is going to be good but more made up shite...



GRR am disappointed at the moment... I will calm down and probably feel better in the morning.


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I enjoyed the episode a lot! I loved Arya's water dancing (although I don't get how peeps got Syrio's alive from that...) and the dialogue with the Hound, loved Pod and Brienne - the rabbit was hilarious and I loved how Brienne caved and let him help her with the armor. I loved the sword coming outta Tanner's mouth - recalled Gendry stabbing Biter the same way when he was attacking Brienne in the books...tongue! URGH!!!



I loved Ghost killing Rast, Hodor/Bran...And crazy, crazy Lysa is magnificent!



Oh, yeah, it was fabulous how SweetRobin immediately threw Uncle Petyr's gift out the Moon Door, the little brat! :wub:


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Lysa was really putting the emphasis on Sansa having lost her virginity. She also explicitely mentioned of whether her and Petyr.....foreshadowing or just crazy lysa?

crazy and jealous lysa because they probably won't have him kiss her.

Edited by jons nissa

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Cersei's really working the judges

I hope people understood that is what "nice" Cersei was all about - working the judges -- Mace's daughter, Tywin, Oberyn.

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Is the brotherhood and their new leader watching Brienne and Pod?

I wondered that, too. Can't wait to see unCat.

Loved The Hound hearing Arya add him to her list. I'll be sorry to see their storyline end.

Not sure how I liked the vision of BR, will have to watch it again. Seemed a bit Disney?

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They must be planning something to fix Cersei foolish cause she agreed to marry Loras but we all know she must have something in her mind.



Maybe she will f*** up everything in her plot and return to the status of dumbest lannister.


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Oh, crap, it just occurred to me that with the wedding left out, there was no rape attempt on Sansa from a "Marillion"-like character. That could happen later, though, I guess.



Aidan Gillen's nauseated "Do Not Want" faces while Lysa was all up in his business were pretty hilarious.


Edited by Newstar

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But why why why are they making Cersei sympathetic seriously she is the original Ice Queen; she is suggesting Margery marry Tommen and is agreeing to still to marry Loras? and now the Lannister's gold is dry?

I hope people understood that is what "nice" Cersei was all about - working the judges -- Mace's daughter, Tywin, Oberyn.

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Man, I don't get how I'm seeing a lot of people saying this was the weakest episode of the season. I LOVED this episode. Everything about it was fantastic. Crazy Lysa , pod and brienne, the mentioning of myrcella and the sand snakes, ayra water dancing and the convo about syrio. Awesome fight between Jon and Karl(?). And of course everything with Ghost.

Also last week was a big wtf moment when bran and co were at crasters. I was very worried they would really screw it up and have Jon and bran meet. They were able to prevent that and have bran in his way. IMO his storyline isn't re written now like I was worried about. They just added a bit. Minor detour. Well done by D&D.

My favorite of the season so far. Although next weeks does look like it might be better.

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I hope people understood that is what "nice" Cersei was all about - working the judges -- Mace's daughter, Tywin, Oberyn.

I hope so but I don't think D and D are clever enough to hatch something like that. Well, maybe they did do it there but they are still setting up to make the Iron Bank stuff not Cersei's fault.

Edited by Darth Pipes

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I gotta say I feel bad for Hodor. I wish they could have escaped without Bran warging Hodor. Hodor with Locke's blood on his hand made me very sad for Hodor. That really was a violation of Hodor as a person, and it was so different from Bran accidentally warging him to calm him down at Queenscrown. :(

Yeah, that's pretty sick. And another thing I bet D&D didn't really think through that much, kind of like Jaime murdering his cousin back in S2.

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The only thing I liked about that episode was the mention of the Sand Snakes. And some of that Lysa and Petyr stuff was fun. The rest of it had so many problems.


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Meera and Bran asked him how will it all end, and he looked at his hand in fire and told them you'll know.

Ah! Thank you. Now it makes much more sense.

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I hope people understood that is what "nice" Cersei was all about - working the judges -- Mace's daughter, Tywin, Oberyn.

Thank you.

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Great to see crazy Lysa back, very good performance. However it was very strange to see her admitting her involvement with Jon's dead and with the plot to get Cat in like she was mentioning something so trivial.



I was also pleased with the way that they managed to make Bran escape without meeting Jon, and Hodor really rocked killing Locke, but in the end I felt sorry for him when he realized some how what he did.



The part the I didn't like was this strange Cersey that they have on the show. I mean, Marg says that she may call her a sister or "mother" and no reaction at all. Too sweet for my taste. Also don't get what they intend to do with this news that the Lanisters are broken.



I always love Pod and Brienne's scenes and now that they are together is a joy, but again I think that they are going too far with Pod, I mean he is not that stupid! making him burning the rabbit because he didn't get that he had to skin it was too much, not to mention his riding style. I think that they didn't have to go that far.


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I will apologize in advance for being super nitpicky today...The episode had a lot of fun moments, but felt a little sloppy IMHO. I think the showrunners have gotten so used to episode 9 being the big one that they have introduced a lot of filler this season to keep "where whores go" and the battle at the wall in episode 9. Unnecessary, in my opinion--but, like Jon Snow, I know nothing.


  • Is this the first episode without Peter Dinklage? Anyway, I missed him. Also, why put NCW in the episode with no lines?
  • Why are they not actually bending the knee? We know the expression exists in show-verse, because Cersei said it in Season 1 and Ned bent the knee to Robert. Seemed like lazy direction to me
  • Loved Cersei stepping in front of Tommen when he and Marg are gazing into each other's eyes-- laughed out loud!
  • Cersei brokering marriage—WTF? -- I think that didn't make sense at all for a mother in mourning. As much as I like Cersei not being a complete nitwit, this is ruining the awesomeness that is Tywin.
  • I think it was sloppy writing for Marg to call Cersei sister DIdn’t Cersei already warn her about that and tell her she would strangle Marg in her sleep if she ever called her sister again? Seriously, did the writer not watch the previous episodes?
  • Emilia looks lovely in that dress.
  • For some reason, Dany calling Jorah, "Jorah" not "Ser Jorah" is annoying me. However, I'm glad that they gave a scene to him after ignoring him all season.
  • Loved the lesson from LF – know your strengths and use them wisely. Good in real life too.
  • Why on earth would they make Alayne Petyr's niece? He doesn't have a brother and that's easily known. It would make perfect sense for a man who runs a brothel to have a bastard. Oldly random change.
  • Impressive scenery at the Eyrie!
  • Sweetrobin likes Peytr? It seems uncharacteristic that Robin would like anyone who takes his mother's attention from him. However, I can live with it.
  • I'm really glad they kept Lysa screaming!!! I thought she deserved some happiness. I also liked the reveal of her role in Jon's death and LF shutting her up with a kiss!
  • Cersei agreeing to marry Loras? Setting a timeline? Another WTF.
  • I don't care for the Lannisters being revealed as out of gold so quickly, but we'll see.
  • Lemoncakes!
  • Pod on a horse was hilarious! I like the change from distain to respect in the relationship between Brienne and Pod. I'm glad that someone knows what he did for Tyrion!
  • Oberyn not having sex! The best thing in the episode. I did like the scene between him and Cersei, especially the kinda introduction of Sand Snakes!
  • I really liked Jojen’s vision's and how he tried to save his sister.
  • “Hounds chained up inside”!!!! -- umm, direwolves. Made me laugh.
  • I saw Snow fall and bury your bones! -- nice! I think this is their way of signalling that snow falling imagery = Jon Snow.
  • Okay, why doesn’t Jon sense ghost’s presence? That seemed odd to me...
  • Bran warging Hodor was great, but I thought the end of Locke was abrupt and premature.
  • Overall, I think the new Bran scenes made sense to add. Also gave us a couple of kick-ass scenese without ruining the story.
Edited by nara

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