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[Book Spoilers] EP405 Discussion

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ok, glad someone else is saying this. so is this a spoiler for what is really going on with the lannister mines? someone posted up thread that this is similar to the quarthian vault being empty. i wonder if that is indeed the case.

I've thought this was a real possibility but there isn't any direct evidence for it in the books, just a possible hint or two here and there but nothing that you can really build a case on. Still it does explain Tywins motives at least in the TV universe, Kevan seemed to think that they did have some gold but he didn't mention anything about production in the West or Lannister mines in particular.

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Tywin did not say the Lannisters are broke, but said that there is no NEW gold being mined. As in they will be broke in the future unless they continue to make moves such as a marriage alliance with the Tyrells.


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They must be planning something to fix Cersei foolish cause she agreed to marry Loras but we all know she must have something in her mind.

Maybe she will f*** up everything in her plot and return to the status of dumbest lannister.

she was trying to get on the good side of all the judges.

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The Bloody Gate mention by LF was cool. The Vale is quite the sight to behold. Next week's episode with Braavos looks amazing as well.


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I hope people understood that is what "nice" Cersei was all about - working the judges -- Mace's daughter, Tywin, Oberyn.

Oh yeah, I mean they did make it a bit obvious with the whole Tywin thing saying his a judge and can't discuss the case.

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I hope people understood that is what "nice" Cersei was all about - working the judges -- Mace's daughter, Tywin, Oberyn.

but but but in the BOOKS she is diabolical, she is not cunning or shrewd she THINKS she is that is why I found it wrong; I don't know from the books everyone was always trying to shut Cersei out and it made her even nuttier than before.

but yes I loved Lunatic Lysa I have to admit she really brought on the Crazy +10... also I think the whole thing with Sansa versus a virgin was so the TV viewers would get it etc...

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The only thing I liked about that episode was the mention of the Sand Snakes. And some of that Lysa and Petyr stuff was fun. The rest of it had so many problems.

Makes me hopeful we may get a good amount of them cast for next season. I assumed they would probably conflate a few, but at least leaves the doors open for all of them if they want

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I hope so but I don't think D and D are clever enough to hatch something like that. Well, maybe they did do it there but they are still setting up to make the Iron Bank stuff not Cersei's fault.

good point, D&D are terrible writers. perhaps if they read the books and understood characters, the show would flow better

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Found the episode to be a tad underwhelming but there were a few parts I really liked.



First of all ... the mention of all eight sand snakes. I imagine this means at least one or two will have to turn up in the show.



Cray Cray Lysa Arryn takes the cake though. And my unsullied boyfriend was like "Hey! I remember that crazy bird!" He did not really get the whole Lysa killing Jon Arryn thing until I explained it to him. That was my biggest nitpick of the episode ... the fact that it was announced so ... dispassionately. Maybe that was the point? So when Only Cat happens it'll have more of an impact?



If you think about it ... this episode kind of sets up the remaining Starks for their respective futures ...



Jon Snow --> leading a raid on the mutineers ... presumably to become Lord Commander of the Night's Watch


Bran Stark --> warg and greenseer


Arya Stark --> future master swordsman/assassin


Sansa Stark --> Lady of the Vale



Also ... I get that "nice" Cersei was just trying to butter up the judges, my only issue is ... I don't see her being that cunning.


Edited by ohpooratlas

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  • Is this the first episode without Peter Dinklage? Anyway, I missed him. Also, why put NCW in the episode with no lines?

This was the second episode ever without Peter Dinklage, maybe the third. The first was Episode 7 of Season 1. There was supposed to be a scene with him and Bronn leaving the Eyrie but they moved that to the next episode.

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I hope so but I don't think D and D are clever enough to hatch something like that. Well, maybe they did do it there but they are still setting up to make the Iron Bank stuff not Cersei's fault.

So you don't think that Cersei doing a complete 180 on all of things that she had established she loathed prior to this episode to the three people who are going to "happen" to be judges in Tyrion's trial is just a huge coincidence?

She obviously has no intention of marrying Loras, she can't stand Margaery and more or less offered up Tommen to her on a platter and played on Oberyn's sympathy for family even though he antagonized her and called her a useless, old has-been the last time they talked.

Happy to see book readers can be manipulated just as easily as non-book readers.

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but but but in the BOOKS she is diabolical, she is not cunning or shrewd she THINKS she is that is why I found it wrong; I don't know from the books everyone was always trying to shut Cersei out and it made her even nuttier than before.

but yes I loved Lunatic Lysa I have to admit she really brought on the Crazy +10... also I think the whole thing with Sansa versus a virgin was so the TV viewers would get it etc...

She was diabolical, but while her father lived she wasn't full of schemes and plots (nobody cared about her). After Tywin's death, however, she becomes uncontrolled.

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...They will either have to invent a whole lot of new material or draw heavily from his story in The Winds of Winter well ahead of the other characters.

I hope they focus on The Sphinx and The Citadel, if that is the case. I could read an entire book on that alone.

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I will apologize in advance for being super nitpicky today...The episode had a lot of fun moments, but felt a little sloppy IMHO. I think the showrunners have gotten so used to episode 9 being the big one that they have introduced a lot of filler this season to keep "where whores go" and the battle at the wall in episode 9. Unnecessary, in my opinion--but, like Jon Snow, I know nothing.

  • Is this the first episode without Peter Dinklage? Anyway, I missed him. Also, why put NCW in the episode with no lines?
  • Why are they not actually bending the knee? We know the expression exists in show-verse, because Cersei said it in Season 1 and Ned bent the knee to Robert. Seemed like lazy direction to me
  • Loved Cersei stepping in front of Tommen when he and Marg are gazing into each other's eyes-- laughed out loud!
  • Cersei brokering marriageWTF? -- I think that didn't make sense at all for a mother in mourning. As much as I like Cersei not being a complete nitwit, this is ruining the awesomeness that is Tywin.
  • I think it was sloppy writing for Marg to call Cersei sister DIdnt Cersei already warn her about that and tell her she would strangle Marg in her sleep if she ever called her sister again? Seriously, did the writer not watch the previous episodes?
  • Emilia looks lovely in that dress.
  • For some reason, Dany calling Jorah, "Jorah" and "Ser Jorah" is annoying me. However, I'm glad that they gave a scene to him after ignoring him all season.
  • Loved the lesson from LF know your strengths and use them wisely. Good in real life too.
  • Why on earth would they make Alayne Petyr's niece? He doesn't have a brother and that's easily known. It would make perfect sense for a man who runs a brothel to have a bastard. Oldly random change.
  • Impressive scenery at the Eyrie!
  • Sweetrobin likes Peytr? It seems uncharacteristic that Robin would like anyone who takes his mother's attention from him. However, I can live with it.
  • I'm really glad they kept Lysa screaming!!! I thought she deserved some happiness. I also liked the reveal of her role in Jon's death and LF shutting her up with a kiss!
  • Cersei agreeing to marry Loras? Setting a timeline? Another WTF.
  • I don't care for the Lannisters being revealed as out of gold so quickly, but we'll see.
  • Lemoncakes!
  • Pod on a horse was hilarious! I like the change from distain to respect in the relationship between Brienne and Pod. I'm glad that someone knows what he did for Tyrion!
  • Oberyn not having sex! The best thing in the episode. I did like the scene between him and Cersei, especially the kinda introduction of Sand Snakes!
  • I really liked Jojens vision's and how he tried to save his sister.
  • Hounds chained up inside!!!! -- umm, direwolves. Made me laugh.

  • I saw Snow fall and bury your bones! -- nice! I think this is their way of signalling that snow falling imagery = Jon Snow.
  • Okay, why doesnt Jon sense ghosts presence? That seemed odd to me...
  • Bran warging Hodor was great, but I thought the end of Locke was abrupt and premature.
  • Overall, I think the new Bran scenes made sense to add. Also gave us a couple of kick-ass scenese without ruining the story.
The snow falling is a good tie in with Bran's vision a few episodes back. Keep it fresh in the viewers mind. Edited by Maester of Ice and Fire

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I did like the touch of Sweetrobin merrily accepting his gift and then just as merrily tossing it out the Moon Door. It was an elegant way of showing how thoughtless and spoiled he is.



Also liked the mention of the chaos in Yunkai and Astapor, and of Cleon.


Edited by Newstar

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She was diabolical, but while her father lived she wasn't full of schemes and plots (nobody cared about her). After Tywin's death, however, she becomes uncontrolled.

Exactly. She also gets more drunk once Tywin dies, which helps deteriorate things a bit more.

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I can't believe Jon was bested by Carl Focking Tanner.

Carl focking tanner out creeped Ramsay nice dueling ninja blades he must have had a hoot playing that role

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My favorite part of the episode was finally seeing Arya doing something impressive with the sword. It's about time we started to see a taste of her skill. Up to this point, she's been entirely too awkward. Up until tonight, she needed to be further along.

Seems to me they showed instead she will never be a killer with a sword which sort of nicely shadows what she learns later.

I thought it was a great episode, and really took a lot from the books to sort of course correct the additional Bran diversion.

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I hope people understood that is what "nice" Cersei was all about - working the judges -- Mace's daughter, Tywin, Oberyn.

even that's out of character since book cersei was never that shrewd. still, if she suddenly becomes mean after the trial and says something along these lines, it will be interesting. i suppose.

Yeah, that's pretty sick. And another thing I bet D&D didn't really think through that much, kind of like Jaime murdering his cousin back in S2.

this happened in the books.

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I hope people understood that is what "nice" Cersei was all about - working the judges -- Mace's daughter, Tywin, Oberyn.

Ya I thought it was pretty obvious what she was doing, and she wasn't just being "nice". She was in full game mode. Marg and Tywin's WTF faces seemed to go towards that too.

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