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[Book Spoilers] EP405 Discussion

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Thoroughly disappointed that they revealed the Jon Arryn thing in THIS episode. THOROUGHLY! When I read that part in the book, it seriously made my jaw drop. In my mind, it was a massive part of the whole Snow Castle sequence, that, quite frankly, made it EPIC to me. That they would reveal it now--along with putting so much emphasis on the Moon Door and Lysa's jealousy--really just...crushes me. I feel that when Snow Castle does happen, it won't have nearly the same impact. I'm so very disappointed.


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but we don't even know that Oberyn is a judge in the showverse, do we? that's part of why it seems off...there's nothing obvious about oberyn becoming a judge.

Tywin asked him in the brothel.

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Presumably he does have a brother (or sister) on the show. Show and book canon aren't the same

Or a cousin. Nieces and nephews can also be the children of cousins.

Anyway, I like it's his niece. It kinda makes sense and it's more logical than suddenly show up with a bastard. A niece, he could have decided to bring her to his new permanent residence in the Vale because he wanted to look for a good marriage, which is probably what are his real plans.

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I enjoyed the episode a lot! I loved Arya's water dancing (although I don't get how peeps got Syrio's alive from that...) and the dialogue with the Hound, loved Pod and Brienne - the rabbit was hilarious and I loved how Brienne caved and let him help her with the armor. I loved the sword coming outta Tanner's mouth - recalled Gendry stabbing Biter the same way when he was attacking Brienne in the books...tongue! URGH!!!

I loved Ghost killing Rast, Hodor/Bran...And crazy, crazy Lysa is magnificent!

Oh, yeah, it was fabulous how SweetRobin immediately threw Uncle Petyr's gift out the Moon Door, the little brat! :wub:

Because the Hound makes it clear that its absolutely ridiculous for the first sword of Braavos to have been bested by Trant. I'm not saying I necessarily believe Syrio is alive but that's why people are saying that part hinted to it.

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but we don't even know that Oberyn is a judge in the showverse, do we? that's part of why it seems off...there's nothing obvious about oberyn becoming a judge.

well this post convinces me maybe they should be less subtle

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This is something that is really irking me this season.

Like the Hound's not stealing code, Olenna pointing out that their conversations in the garden might be overheard, and Cersei wanting more guards by Tommen's door.

It's just dialogue pointing focus on something that is going to be contradicted. WTF?!

I know, it just seems careless...

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for the exactly that point she doesn't know Subtlety if she was shown the definition of it; within the books it is her greatest weakness, I'm sorry I am not going to back down from that gripe; I pretty much support the show and the writers as yes they have read all the books, etc I'm just disappointed in how they are playing it out is all. :)

Are you sure you arent letting AFFC Cersei affect your opinion of ASOS Cersei ? Tywin's death had a major impact on her personality.

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Anyway, I like it's his niece. It kinda makes sense and it's more logical than suddenly show up with a bastard. A niece, he could have decided to bring her to his new permanent residence in the Vale because he wanted to look for a good marriage, which is probably what are his real plans.

A trueborn niece would be way harder to produce out of thin air than a bastard. There are records kept of the genealogies of noble houses; "Alayne", if she were trueborn, would be expected to be listed in stuff like that.

Or a cousin. Nieces and nephews can also be the children of cousins.

Children of cousins are cousins at a certain remove. A child of Littlefinger's first cousin would be a first cousin, once removed.

Edited by Colonel Green

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The whole thing with Locke really didn't make much sense, why didn't he kill Bran and the others on the spot, or just burn down the cabin? They would have found the others he left alive and they would know he took off with Bran, right? Where was he going with him? Was he trying to bring him alive to Roose or did he just want his head as proof or something like that?

He was probably going to "question" Bran about Rickon's whereabouts. Although how he planned to get back to Castle Black and eventually return to Roose is beyond me.

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Thoroughly disappointed that they revealed the Jon Arryn thing in THIS episode. THOROUGHLY! When I read that part in the book, it seriously made my jaw drop. In my mind, it was a massive part of the whole Snow Castle sequence, that, quite frankly, made it EPIC to me. That they would reveal it now--along with putting so much emphasis on the Moon Door and Lysa's jealousy--really just...crushes me. I feel that when Snow Castle does happen, it won't have nearly the same impact. I'm so very disappointed.

I don't get this at all.

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Presumably he does have a brother (or sister) on the show. Show and book canon aren't the same.

So we do have the disguise, but I'm really confused about it. Was a little scene where they actually explained the details of this really too much to ask? Is Alayne a bastard still? People talk about how Littlefinger suddenly have a bastard daughter is implausible, but producing a trueborn niece out of thin air would be even weirder. What's the point of calling attention to the distinctiveness of the Tully hair if she's not changing it? Why does Sansa have exactly the same wardrobe she had before when she didn't take anything with her?

What is there to wonder about in the books? Kevan is completely clearheaded, and there's no indication whatsoever that there's anything amiss about the family finances in his POV.

so Kevan was in charge of all their finances? he didn't like frivolity & thought he was concerned with Cerseis spending

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Because the Hound makes it clear that its absolutely ridiculous for the first sword of Braavos to have been bested by Trant. I'm not saying I necessarily believe Syrio is alive but that's why people are saying that part hinted to it.

Except it was clearly the Hound mocking Syrios skills...not insisting his mystic powers bested Trant and were all in the dark.

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A trueborn niece would be way harder to produce out of thin air than a bastard. There are records kept of the genealogies of noble houses; "Alayne", if she were trueborn, would be expected to be listed in stuff like that.

She could still be a Stone. I'm sure LF will clarify these details with Sansa in a later episode. For the purposes of the gate, saying that she was his niece and giving a first name was sufficient.

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Thoroughly disappointed that they revealed the Jon Arryn thing in THIS episode. THOROUGHLY! When I read that part in the book, it seriously made my jaw drop. In my mind, it was a massive part of the whole Snow Castle sequence, that, quite frankly, made it EPIC to me. That they would reveal it now--along with putting so much emphasis on the Moon Door and Lysa's jealousy--really just...crushes me. I feel that when Snow Castle does happen, it won't have nearly the same impact. I'm so very disappointed.

here is the problem with the aryn reveal, show watchers don't know who he is, and they wouldn't know if they revealed it this episode next episode, episode ten, or if they used big flashing light, sucks I know but I think the reveal is an acknowledgement of that

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We keep discussing what they can and can't show regarding love scenes with minors, and I'm very suprised they got away with an 8 year boy sucking a nipple in the first season. I know it was because it wasn't a sexual scene, but it still suprised me.

It was also a prosthetic breast, which probably helped.

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"Everywhere in the world they hurt little girls"

Cersei, feminist icon :D

Expecting to see t-shirts saying something to that effect. It's weird how people earnestly latch on to a literal fantasy world as memes, *actual* lessons for reality.

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My least favorite episode of the season, but wasn't awful or anything. Didn't move things forward all that much though it caught us up on the Vale, etc.



Was that a strong implication that Jojen (who has already seen his own death) is going to die by burning? Maybe burned by the CotF in some ritual? Crazy stuff.



Also, what's the significance of the ravens cawing on the show at this point? Hints towards BR? WW? No particular significance?


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