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[Book Spoilers] EP405 Discussion

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Except it was clearly the Hound mocking Syrios skills...not insisting his mystic powers bested Trant and were all in the dark.

Well yes he is mocking Syrio's skill but he doesn't know Syrio. We know Syrio is a bad ass. He is insinuating Syrio is not near as good as Arya is saying, we know he is so to think he was bested by Trant is silly. That's what people are getting at when they say it means Syrio is still alive. As I said I don't think he is. He was a bad ass & was indeed the first sword of Braavos BUT he only had a broken wooden sword facing a man with a sword & in full armor. I think he is dead but with so many people being dead & then not dead... who knows.

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I'm not really fussed on the Jon Arryn reveal. The show has never really been known for subtlety. Why is it necessary to dump it all in one shot? Especially since show viewers haven't encountered this stuff in three years?


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This was the second episode ever without Peter Dinklage, maybe the third. The first was Episode 7 of Season 1. There was supposed to be a scene with him and Bronn leaving the Eyrie but they moved that to the next episode.

Every season he's not in one episode.

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Every season he's not in one episode.

He'll be missing two this season, with episode 9.

Edited by Colonel Green

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Yeah, that's pretty sick. And another thing I bet D&D didn't really think through that much, kind of like Jaime murdering his cousin back in S2.

You're right, I'm sure they haven't thought it through at all. That's why they put in the part with Hodor looking upset and shaking when he saw the blood on his hands.

Sheesh, give these guys a break and just wait to see how everything plays out before acting as if they don't know what they are doing, because they know better than any of us.

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Agreed. If they had left it at "The things I've done for you, Petyr" that would have been fine.

I liked:

-Cersei

-Cersei

-Margaery...Cersei

-No Peter Dinklage

-Night's Watch vs Mutineers

-Jojen fucking Reed

Meh:

-Daenerys (one scene and done is getting old)

Did not like:

-Lysa going overboard on the crazy (felt x10 as crazy as S1 interpretation)

-There is no need to rush Sansa's storyline, I am convinced "Only Cat" is ep.7 now

-So they correct the large infodump of "Only Cat" by moving the Jon Arryn reveal earlier, into an utterly and awkward "whatever" infodump

-Fake Stark reunion (I thought I saw this like 6 episodes ago)

-Meera being taunted rape (a purely invented scene, unlike the ambiguous Cersei/Jaime scene)

-Locke's character wasted in the manner Ros's character was wasted for Dontos

My biggest complaint is the character assassination of Hodor. How dare you take his innocence like an afterthought, D&D.

Edited by Zombies That Were Promised

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1000000% how I feel. I put up with almost all of their changes silently, but this one really bothered me.

The last couple episodes they've been almost insulting with how thick and obvious they've been explaining some of the plot points. Last episode, they had Littlefinger explain to Sansa that someone with common interests helped him kill Joffrey, then immediately afterward flashed to an image of Olenna and Margaery. That should have been enough to make the audience realize who was behing everything, but then they spend ANOTHER scene where Olenna again explained that it was her that did it. I half expected there to be a director's cut where D&D appeared sitting in reclining chairs after that scene, and said "For those of you who still don't understand....Littlefinger and Olenna were behind Joffrey's murder. Okay, now back to the program"....

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Fighting with a longsword in an enclosed place against someone with two daggers is pretty difficult. But Snow recovered in the end.

He would be dead if not for Craster's daughter, so that kind'a ruined it....would've preferred he had taken out 'Dafoe' all by himself.

Edited by King Tommen I

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Did you miss his last line stating Meryn killed Syrio because Meryn had armor and a 'big fucking sword'? - and Syrio didn't?

For gods sake did you miss my line where I said I don't think he is alive?! Another poster was asking why people are taking from that convo that Syrio is alive. I was just explaining other peoples opinions to them. You are barking up the wrong tree. I completely agree Syrio is dead & gone & not coming back...

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What? Why would Lysa think Sansa was Petyr's daughter? Catelyn was way up in the middle of the North; and Petyr transparently wants to bone Sansa.

because lysa is a crazy bitch who thinks sansa may be pregnant with petyrs(in the show at least) baby and knows he loved catelyn deeply. i dont think its such a stretch for her to think she is his child

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I need to reread some chapters, I don't remember that letter and Jon A, all being done by Peter.

Woah. That's the biggest reveal in the entire series. :stunned:

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Show-Cersei is an ill-used long-suffering mother whose only crimes were the incest with brother Jaime, spoiling Joffrey, and killing Sansa's wolf. Not much resemblance to book-Cersei, who I find more interesting.

Can't say I do. Book Cersei is an idiotic, one note psycho. I think they will still eventually bring the Cersei crazy but it will be more earned by that point.

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Speaking of puzzling changes, what the hell was with Sansa posing as Petyr's niece instead of his bastard daughter? Instead of taking the easy explanation from the books, D and D like to changed things in a way that's convoluted and make no sense. I don't get their obsession with doing that. Seriously, the reason he gave in the book was fine. So they created an sibling we'll never see of Petyr?


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1000000% how I feel. I put up with almost all of their changes silently, but this one really bothered me.

FML. I'm so disappointed I feel like I should be drinking right now. :dunce:

I personally don't mind the Jon Arryn reveal coming this early. I hated that exposition dump in the books prior to the murder attempt: cheesy villain(ess) monologuing, very clumsy writing. This breaks it up a little. It's still clumsy, but it won't break up the tension in the scene where Lysa is trying to kill Sansa with a bunch of expository villainess monologuing explaining in great detail exactly what Lysa's deal is. Likewise for the scene with Sansa in this episode where Lysa shows her crazy, jealous side early on.

You don't think that takes away the element of, "Oh shit!?!?" that would have come? I think, with the way its been presented, the Snow Castle/Only Cat scene will now become an eventuality rather than a shock.

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Bringing Syrio back is not in George's nature, despite the whole business about him not dying on screen. He has a great death, and it would cheapen him as a character to have him miraculously survive the encounter. The fact that he bites it to a lesser swordsman and complete douche is what makes his death tragic, and yet realistic.


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I took it to mean they aren't out of money, just not able to produce new coin cause the mining is all done. They don't really have source of new income through their mines.

Actually they would have considerable incomes from the interest on the loans they have made to the crown. Hence the need to hold the throne as opposed to controling it behind the scenes with their financial power.

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About Cersei, at this point in books, we don't get her POV yet. So, we don't actually know how crazy she is. Also, maybe she felt protected by Tywin, confident on Tyrion being killed and joyful because she defeated Maggy's prophecy.



Once Tyrion escapes, though...


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