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[Book Spoilers] EP405 Discussion

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I'm not really fussed on the Jon Arryn reveal. The show has never really been known for subtlety. Why is it necessary to dump it all in one shot? Especially since show viewers haven't encountered this stuff in three years?

Im fine with it too. That cat had to be let out of the bag and throwing it in with "Only Cat" would be a little too much.

God. That Karl Tanner fight with Jon Snow was epic as fuck.

Duuuuuude! Karl is fucking amazing with those knives! WOW!

Im just glad Ghost got to gnaw on someone's dome!

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I enjoyed the episode a lot! I loved Arya's water dancing (although I don't get how peeps got Syrio's alive from that...) and the dialogue with the Hound, loved Pod and Brienne - the rabbit was hilarious and I loved how Brienne caved and let him help her with the armor. I loved the sword coming outta Tanner's mouth - recalled Gendry stabbing Biter the same way when he was attacking Brienne in the books...tongue! URGH!!!

I loved Ghost killing Rast, Hodor/Bran...And crazy, crazy Lysa is magnificent!

Oh, yeah, it was fabulous how SweetRobin immediately threw Uncle Petyr's gift out the Moon Door, the little brat! :wub:

Two ways to take the scene.

The literal way: No way could a Bravosi master take even the least skilled Kingsguard in plate with a broadsword

Or the more subtle way: Syrio is a master swordsman, something the Hound knows nothing about, and no master swordsman of Bravvos could be killed by an inept Kingsguard regardless of him wearing plate and having a big sword

If Arya's view of Syrio is correct, the scene is ironic because Syrio is alive.

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Bringing Syrio back is not in George's nature, despite the whole business about him not dying on screen. He has a great death, and it would cheapen him as a character to have him miraculously survive the encounter. The fact that he bites it to a lesser swordsman and complete douche is what makes his death tragic, and yet realistic.

yet he is a bravosi, and in the series, people from braavos seems to have a certain mystique about them...

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Maybe when Petyr starts creeping on Sansa, having her pose as his fake niece will be easier for the audience to ingest than if she masqueraded as his fake daughter?



I thought it was weird too, though I honestly didn't think "so now Petyr has a sibling I don't know about" until other posters here brought it up.


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I am sorry, but this was just bad. Not interesting, not subtle, not intelligently written... Dull... I am all for praises when deserved but this week was just bad...



There were some moments I liked but overall impression is rather bad:



1. Cersei... Especially liked how she saw through Margaery's sweet face... Although that conversation come from God knows where, it was kinda nice


2. Vale... This was all messed up... But thumbs up for the worst plausible romance


3. Bran and Jon not meeting... I liked that... It honored the book material in season where the same was ripped apart.


4. And so we begin with Meereenese plot


5. Oberyn... I mean he can appear just sitting and meditating and I would like the guy...



Brienne and Pod's conversation was pointless, Locke was pointless... Someone should tell Mis Clarke that badassery works to a point. The reunion between Jon and Ghost was underwhelming. Just bad... I didn't like it.


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What was the bird that Robin dropped through the moon door made of? Reckon it would smash? Right now I'm picturing a dead Lysa laying next to the bird as the final shot of whatever episode "Only Cat" happens in. If it's during 'Mockingbird' then I think that would be a perfect scenario if not a little cheesy. It just popped in my mind and I hope to see it but I somewhat doubt we'll see her body at all, just the fall.


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Anybody else glad the Craster´s keep filler plot is finally over?

Yes but I was pleasantly surprised they wrapped it up so quickly and so neatly.

Bringing Syrio back is not in George's nature, despite the whole business about him not dying on screen. He has a great death, and it would cheapen him as a character to have him miraculously survive the encounter. The fact that he bites it to a lesser swordsman and complete douche is what makes his death tragic, and yet realistic.

I don't know, he's brought back a couple other characters that were actually physically dead and will probably bring back at least one more so I'm not sold on Syrio being dead until I see a body stamped with a notary's seal.

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Best part of this episode was obviously Robin throwing Petyr's gift out the Moon Door--worst moment of the episode was not immediately showing Petyr's inevitable derp face at witnessing that act.


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Two ways to take the scene.

The literal way: No way could a Bravosi master take even the least skilled Kingsguard in plate with a broadsword

Or the more subtle way: Syrio is a master swordsman, something the Hound knows nothing about, and no master swordsman of Bravvos could be killed by an inept Kingsguard regardless of him wearing plate and having a big sword

If Arya's view of Syrio is correct, the scene is ironic because Syrio is alive.

A master swordsman with no sword, is no longer a master swordsman.

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God. That Karl Tanner fight with Jon Snow was epic as fuck.

When Jon entered the cabin, with fire reflecting off the blood on Longclaw's edge,

SO *******ING EPIC!

You knew ***** was about to go down, and it did.

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Did he toss it out the Moon Door in front of the person who had given him the gift because he's just that thoughtless and spoiled, or because he's genuinely disturbed? Hard to tell.

Joffey sliced up the book that Tyrion and Sansa gave him at his wedding with Widow's Wail.

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1. good job on the LF lysa dynamic



2. Didn't like the change with the lannister gold mines running out. This is a change from the books because we know when Robb is plundering the westerlands, the captures some of the gold mines and the gold is flowing. The only mines that had failed that we know of were the mines belonging to the crag.



3. handled the crasters keep sub plot well, good thing keeping jon and bran apart



4. White washing Dany some more, she doesn't have ships in the books. They all sailed away before she captured the city, so she didn't have a choice, she had to stay. Of course they change this to make dany look better so she "chooses" to stay behind and try to make things right.



5. Didn't like Arya including beric dondarrion, and thoros of myr to her death list.



6. Locke's death seemed abrupt



7. how the fuck they're going to do this 50 ironborn attacking the dreadfort subplot, not from the book, baffles me



8. Stannis is going to bravos... i'd heard it but now it seems to be happening for sure, will be interesting to see how this pans out



All in all, the show is straying further and further from the books. This might be a good thing though, since the show will likely catch up to GRRM before he finishes the series, maybe its for the best if it has its own, unique, completely different ending. So, instead of nitpicking in the future, I'm going to try to enjoy the show more for being its own unique breed.


Edited by Belisarius09

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yet he is a bravosi, and in the series, people from braavos seems to have a certain mystique about them...

Certainly. But is there really any reasonable evidence in the lore to support the idea that Syrio and Trent both survive the encounter? Something that's important is to remember George's thoughts on Tolkien bringing Gandalf back. He states that Gandalf had a great death, the Fellowship should have had to pick themselves up and carry on without him. Arya having to pick herself up and carry on following Syrio's death has far more thematic weight, and I trust George enough to do the right thing and let him stay dead.

Duuuuuude! Karl is fucking amazing with those knives! WOW!

Im just glad Ghost got to gnaw on someone's dome!

When he readies his knives as bows to "Lord Snow", my heart started racing. Shit was perfectly executed. I think it's awesome that Jon can't actually defeat him in single combat, because the way Craster's wife does him in is just way more compelling than him losing outright.

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Best part of this episode was obviously Robin throwing Petyr's gift out the Moon Door--worst moment of the episode was not immediately showing Petyr's inevitable derp face at witnessing that act.

Aidan Gillen's hilarious faces were the best part of the episode for me, although I did love Sweetrobin throwing the bird out the Moon Door, and Sansa's disturbed expression after he did it.

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Best part of this episode was obviously Robin throwing Petyr's gift out the Moon Door--worst moment of the episode was not immediately showing Petyr's inevitable derp face at witnessing that act.

I feel his, "Oh *****" face when she opened the door with the Septon ready to marry, made up for that.

Edited by TheNinjaDC

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ok, glad someone else is saying this. so is this a spoiler for what is really going on with the lannister mines? someone posted up thread that this is similar to the quarthian vault being empty. i wonder if that is indeed the case.

I think -- maybe -- that D&D are feeling the need to reinforce why the consequences for the crown *and* the Lannisters are for screwing over the Iron Bank. If they set-up the Lannisters as basically broke, the Lannisters therefore cannot come to the aid of the crown.

Otherwise, when the sh*t starts hitting the fan because of realm debt, viewers might scratch their heads and say, "So, why can't Tywin Lannister just write a check and cover the debt?"

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My least favorite episode of the season, but wasn't awful or anything. Didn't move things forward all that much though it caught us up on the Vale, etc.

Was that a strong implication that Jojen (who has already seen his own death) is going to die by burning? Maybe burned by the CotF in some ritual? Crazy stuff.

Also, what's the significance of the ravens cawing on the show at this point? Hints towards BR? WW? No particular significance?

Actually, it makes me wonder if BR had a hand in freeing Ghost, because the ravens started to caw and suddenly the door is open and Ghost is gone.

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I don't know, he's brought back a couple other characters that were actually physically dead and will probably bring back at least one more so I'm not sold on Syrio being dead until I see a body stamped with a notary's seal.

I get that when a character doesn't die on screen, it's normally a sign that there's something more going on, but in this case I don't think it would work. His other resurrections serve specific narrative purposes, and I cannot for the life of me justify Syrio's survival on aesthetic grounds.

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I feel is, "Oh *****" face when she opened the door with the Septon ready to marry, made up for that.

Yes! That was classic.

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