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[Book Spoilers] EP405 Discussion

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I never liked Beric and Stoneheart as developments. It's yet to be seen what the point of Stoneheart is. Each of them were raised pretty much out of the blue. At least with Syrio there is a bit of a question as to whether he's dead or not.

The worse thing is that GRRM will likely resurrect Jon. I have always felt that the resurrections permanently diminished the series. When Ned died it was like BAM the main character can die and really be dead and no silly fantasy resurrection, then GRRM blew it and made it commonplace.

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Uhhh she was obviously fishing Marg to find out if she had any idea of the murder. It was so obvious Cersei was fishing, it was like "hurrr". Not exactly out of character for her.

Cersei's not the brightest but she would have to be a COMPLETE idiot to think she'd get Margaery to confess any knowledge or complicity in Joffrey's death. She wasn't fishing.

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Does anyone agree that the show seems to be trying hard NOT to catch up with the books? Which would explain all of the recent deviations?

They have to kill time until Ep 9.

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Strangely, I'm not upset about the early Jon Arryn reveal necessarily. I'm upset about the omnipotence of Lysa's madness. I think what takes the "oh shit" out of "Only Cat" is front-loading Lysa's madness before it happens. She was a lot eviller to Sansa than she ever was to Cat in Season 1. She basically breastfed and gave the middle finger to Cat that she wouldn't help, while she's killing Sansa with lemon cakes tonight.



When you know someone is balloons crazy, you expect them to do just about anything. "Only Cat" isn't a reveal of just her as the murderer, but also a reveal and undeniable confirmation about just how far her insanity extends.


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Cersei's not the brightest but she would have to be a COMPLETE idiot to think she'd get Margaery to confess any knowledge or complicity in Joffrey's death. She wasn't fishing.

i dont think she was fishing about the murder but i do think she was trying to figure margaery out. margaery fucked up with the "sister or mother" line tbh

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Not really. They've just structured the show around key stopping points for each plot in a given season, which for some means coming up with additional material.

That's essentially the same point. The "stopping points" you mentioned ensures they don't catch up to the books.

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Cersei's not the brightest but she would have to be a COMPLETE idiot to think she'd get Margaery to confess any knowledge or complicity in Joffrey's death. She wasn't fishing.

Yes she was. That entire conversation was fishing. All of it. She was mostly aiming at Tommen, but dropping Joff in there to see Marg's reaction.

Exactly. I wonder even if show viewers realize the gravity of her actions she had just confessed to.

This is rubbish. My parents both made gasping, shocked noises at that. Yeah, even Dad. I really wish you people would give unsullied some freaking credit.

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I noticed Oberyn mentioned his daughters- one in particular. I wonder if they will cast one Sand Snake.

I didn't like him calling Elia difficult. That's more of an Ellaria thing to say. But I am glad they were mentioned.

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That's essentially the same point. The "stopping points" you mentioned ensures they don't catch up to the books.

No. The stopping points are where it makes the most sense dramatically to end a season. It's not for the purpose of keeping behind the books.

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i dont think she was fishing about the murder but i do think she was trying to figure margaery out. margaery fucked up with the "sister or mother" line tbh

I think that was a polite "fuck you" from Margaery.

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This is rubbish. My parents both made gasping, shocked noises at that. Yeah, even Dad. I really wish you people would give unsullied some freaking credit.

The conversations I've had with some Unsullied make me wonder if we're even watching the same show.

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The worse thing is that GRRM will likely resurrect Jon. I have always felt that the resurrections permanently diminished the series. When Ned died it was like BAM the main character can die and really be dead and no silly fantasy resurrection, then GRRM blew it and made it commonplace.

Jon's a bit different though since his purpose in the series really is not finished; his assassination comes so abruptly just as things are starting to move. Catelyn and Beric in retrospect seem to be precursors to however Jon comes back. But I agree when I first saw them I thought GRRM had jumped the shark into fantasy claptrap. The jury is still out on it for me.

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I am sorry, but this was just bad. Not interesting, not subtle, not intelligently written... Dull... I am all for praises when deserved but this week was just bad...

There were some moments I liked but overall impression is rather bad:

1. Cersei... Especially liked how she saw through Margaery's sweet face... Although that conversation come from God knows where, it was kinda nice

2. Vale... This was all messed up... But thumbs up for the worst plausible romance

3. Bran and Jon not meeting... I liked that... It honored the book material in season where the same was ripped apart.

4. And so we begin with Meereenese plot

5. Oberyn... I mean he can appear just sitting and meditating and I would like the guy...

Brienne and Pod's conversation was pointless, Locke was pointless... Someone should tell Mis Clarke that badassery works to a point. The reunion between Jon and Ghost was underwhelming. Just bad... I didn't like it.

Yes and yes. Rather pointless. Not to mention the SF debates now that have sprung up do to the hound.

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I think that was a polite "fuck you" from Margaery.

it was obviously a polite "fuck you" but also a fuck up from margaery imo. it wasnt exactly very subtle.........

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Yes she was. That entire conversation was fishing. All of it. She was mostly aiming at Tommen, but dropping Joff in there to see Marg's reaction.

Gotta disagree there. I'd buy that she might've wanted to cozy up to Margaery for future purposes since she was a lot friendlier to her than the past. But I don't think she thought she'd get Margaery to say anything.

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Overall solid episode. Jon and NW part was badass. Happy I wasn't on the 'Locke is gonna be Bowen Marsh or something' bandwagon.

I'm happy that Bran booked it before talking to Jon. Jojen was right that Jon would impede on their journey.

Weird thinking that Jon and Bran haven't spoke to each other since the pilot.

The next episode looks like it has potential to be the best this season.

I agree next episode looks great but I doubt it will be the best this season. The last 3 episodes are going to be full of huge moments.

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The conversations I've had with some Unsullied make me wonder if we're even watching the same show.

Unsullied I know have trouble with names and relations but they keep track of the plots well enough. They seem like readers going through the series for the first time.

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Didn't mind the Jon Arryn reveal at all-- it actually seems almost comparable to Joffrey's line about the dagger, and Tyrion finally realizing it was Joff who tried to have Bran killed way back in season one. That's ancient history now, in television terms.



While Jon Arryn's killer is a big reveal in the books, it just doesn't seem all that important in the show at this point, and would actually seem pretty absurd if coupled with that intense later scene and played up like a climactic reveal. 'Hey, remember that character you liked who died in season one when he was investigating the death of a character you never actually saw? No? Well, strap in, viewer, because the answer to Sean Beane's murder investigation that you didn't really get (and actually wonder if it was in Lord of the Rings and not Game of Thrones, come to think of it), is the climactic reveal of tonight's episode!!!'


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