Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP405 Discussion

Recommended Posts

There are several things I liked in this episode...I'll probably mention each as it comes to mind...

As a first, I liked they didnt do anything that would over shadow Lysa's big reveal. I mean the possible implications of LF masterminding all of it and effectively starting the war of 5 kings...Its great the way it was showed here...it will allow unsullied to take in LF's true character because I think so far everyone has thought Varys is "evil"...and even if LF was responsible for Purple wedding, well they hated Joffery anyway...but now...it will make them think [emoji2]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-Jon Snow apparently kind of sucks at fighting... He's lost literally every single fight against someone who knows what they're doing (except Halfhand, who arguably let him win). Was he this inept in the books?

He was always just a bit above average in the books. And yeah, Qhorin dominated Jon in the books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also didn't Jon kill like 20 people before that point, then "lost a fight" (whilst killing his opponent) against a more experienced foe in a situation greatly favouring his opponent when he was also fatigued from killing all those men? Certainly he's come better off than Jaime pre-dehanding (ironically getting a boost in the show post de-handing!)

He was disarmed, and about to be executed until Craster's daughter jumped in and stabbed the guy in the back....

As for the fights before that... It's fairly well shown that many of the men in the Night's Watch are complete novices at best when it comes to sword fighting.... and even if they weren't the fighting odds are ~7-8men counting Jon, versus 11 former Night's Watch who have all spent the entire month drinking and sleeping with inbred girls... it'd be a stretch to assume that any of those 11 are in any serious fighting shape by that point, and they are taken by surprise(or at least not all awake, dressed, and armed when the battle starts)... Imo the odds where with Jon's group regardless

Jon doesn't have to be an awesome fighter. Though he does fine in the books and I thought fine in this episode.

I agree with this, and I'm not trying to really derail this thread, I just think it's somewhat interesting that he isn't that good of a swordsman, especially when you consider he's one of the people most likely to wield Lightbringer/be AAR (if that ever actually happens in the show/books), and also, as a member of The Night's Watch, someone who is going to be in a place that constantly requires him to rely on his swordplay to survive.

Edited by Epyon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pouring one out (of a skull) for THE FOOKING LEGEND OF GIN ALLEY , you were a fantastic dickhead.

Over here cracking the FOOK up lol. Actually that whole review was awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was always just a bit above average in the books. And yeah, Qhorin dominated Jon in the books.

This wasnt a huge thing but I liked that they showed Jon getting his ass kicked by Karl...heres why

First, completely different fighting styles, sword vs daggers...as Karl was mocking him that he was taught by a old knight and to fight honorably while Karl learnt on the streets..

Second, Jons never had real long fights...only trained in NW, where he was already superior to everyone since they never had real training...i mean he started teaching all of them almost as soon as he got to the wall in book 1 (bet against Thorne, Ghost juggling)

Third, its an additional reason for him to train so hard after becoming LC...in books part of his motivation was how Halfhand had to let him win...

Fourth, just like Arya against Hound, he was brought down a notch from his high horse. While he might be better than the recruits at NW, by no means is he a superb fighter, just a boy who believes he's better than he really is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That show's Pod extraordinary sexual abilities are putting Brienne of Tarth's romantic life into perspective...


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not a book purist. I think the books have their flaws and things need to be cut and changed significantly to make the story watchable as a TV show. The Jon/Bran scenes were one of those changes I liked, which surprised me since most of the time the showrunners changed something significantly it was bad (Qarth, Talisa, Shae). I definitely prefered the craster scenes to Bran crawling through the snow again or Jon holding another speech about the wildlings.



Dany's scene was okay. I don't like how they made her have a navy big enough to transport her army, makes her not going to Westeros a lot more frustrating for those that desperately want to see it. In the books she has no way to transport her people, that was a big reason for staying. It's hard to go anywhere when you lack the means to go from A to B.



Loved everything with Lysa/Littlefinger/Sansa. Lysa's actress is perfect and Littlefinger was not as terrible and cartoony as usual.



I really enjoyed that were was comparatively little of King's Landing, it's way too overexposed on the show and the scenes are always a drag for me. The ten minute dialogues there with nothing happening make the pacing in the show seem really weird. It feels like several weeks have passed in Essos and in the North since the beginning of the season and only a few days in King's Landing. The scenes in other storylines never get the time to breath compared to King's Landing.


Edited by Carl Rhaego

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why didn’t they put the Eyrie in the opening sequence instead of Dragonstone? :(



Anyway, good episode. A third episode in a row without Ramsay and his Reek. Jon Snow will never find out who the Locke really was.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was always just a bit above average in the books. And yeah, Qhorin dominated Jon in the books.

He feels average in the series. Maybe even a bit below, its just most of the watch is well below average.

Edited by Batman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

God the "extra's" on this show are bad sometimes. Did anyone else see Grenn fighting that guy right after Jon came out of the keep? I mean, the guy literally just held his sword out for 5 seconds so Grenn could hit it back and forth before delivering a kill blow.

At least it's not as bad as Ser Loras charge at the Battle of Blackwater where he slashes at an extra who falls down theatrically, and it looks as real as the WWE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dany is so fucking stupid.


So good luck trying to change a society of slaver's overnight.Well Yunkai and Astapor turned out just fine.


OMG I'M NOT PREPARED TO RULE, I HAVE TO WAIT.




oh dear there's no way i could have miseed something no....!




well...let's see


Dear old illyrio mopatis, the golden company with the Mummer's Dragon, funding from the iron bank of braavos, Prince Doran and the entirety of dorne at her side, Mercenaries that can be bought from the free cities with the wealth of Mereen and the liberated cities, more ships as-well to buy.





Oh dear my dragons are too small.!



The sheer sight of dragons will make the noble houses swear for her.On a side note Ageon the conqueror had small dragons at the beginning and waited for them to grow, but the most important thing that he did was...




wait for it...




MAKE THE MOST OUT OF EVERY FUCKING OPPORTUNITY THAT CAME BEFORE HIM.




He wasn't a perfect ruler, but saw an opportunity and conquered westeros.


My god people who like dany are just as stupid as she is.


Edited by KarlVyt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weren't Aegon's dragons in no way small at all when he invaded? Like, enormous, Balerion was at least 100 years old

Specifically, Balerion was this big.

Also, it makes perfect sense that Dany would want to hone her skills as a ruler, and use Meereen and Slaver's Bay as a sort of trial period to learn from, before she goes for the real deal. Sure, it's not the sexiest motive for a character to have, but it's absolutely the logical thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least it's not as bad as Ser Loras charge at the Battle of Blackwater where he slashes at an extra who falls down theatrically, and it looks as real as the WWE.

I think all the fights look pretty bad, even the main character ones.

Maybe I haven't seen LOTR in long enough, but those battles seemed less fake (well... usually).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is something that is really irking me this season.

Like the Hound's not stealing code, Olenna pointing out that their conversations in the garden might be overheard, and Cersei wanting more guards by Tommen's door.

It's just dialogue pointing focus on something that is going to be contradicted. WTF?!

The Hound contradictions could have been put there to show that he's more opportunistic/pragmatic than he is principled. It could also be that the showrunners want us to think the Hound is as much of a hypocrite in many ways as the people he rails against.

The Marg/Cersei scene could be Marg trying to poke the bear to see if she could get Cersei to elicit an emotion to indicate she doesn't mean what she says. It seemed like Marg was a little confused at first by Cersei's 180, which she was right to be confused by as Cersei was probably either buttering up people with possible influence on the trial or it's part of the Lannister plan to keep the Tyrell's on their side for the financial reasons Tywin mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weren't Aegon's dragons in no way small at all when he invaded? Like, enormous, Balerion was at least 100 years old

Only Balerion. Vhagar and Meraxes were born much later on Dragonstone and Balerion was already old by then. Or maybe I've remembered poorly when they were born.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really enjoyed this episode. Not sure yet if it is my fave of the season so far but pretty close. Took me to the end of the episode to realise that Tyrion didn't even appear.



Loved:



Margarey and Cersei chat - Lena Headey is second best actress this year after Maisie.


Twyin and Cersei chat


Tommen is hooked on Margaery. So cute.


Brienne and Pod - heh. Loved that she couldn't get the armour undone.


Jojen - I think this is the first time I've actually liked him.


Jon Snow - gets better every episode. With that sword through the mouth, I think he's going to enjoy assassin Arya.


Hodor - damn. Felt for him when he was looking at the blood on his hand.



Arya - always the best. Congrats Maisie on that fantastic waterdance. It looked great. Don't worry about the Hound. He wouldn't even be fit to stand anywhere near Syrio.



Not sure on:



Arya's list - you know you are my fave but putting my Beric on there. We have to have words.


Bran - I'm really surprised he had no reaction to them threatening Meera. It felt like Isaac fell asleep there.



Hated:



The Hound - you are a gigantic, gigantic ass. She was just dancing around, practising with her sword. And you couldn't give her a moment to enjoy herself. And hitting a little girl to the ground is never cool.



I really don't understand where they are going with the Hound's lessons. Because none of them actually are lessons. They are just 'asshole' moments. The whole 'lesson' in the third episode didn't mean anything because its not the small folk that are beheading the Starks. It's the nobles and Arya doesn't trust them as far as she can throw them.



The 'lesson' tonight was also pointless. Making fun of people you don't know and basically enjoying the fact that a little girl has lost everyone important in her life is only a lesson that the Hound is a gigantic ass. And I'm pretty sure that Arya already knows that one.



Arya also has not indicated in anyway how she plans on killing those on her list. She held back with Polliver's gang until she could take someone on. And also, Ass, she survived way before you came along.



Seeing as they are going differently in the books, I want Arya to spend the rest of this season slowly poisoning the Hound. Now, that would be awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×