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[Book Spoilers] EP405 Discussion

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So who the hell is that blonde woman in all those scenes at Kings Landing? Like I read every book 8 times over and I'm a huge fan of the series, but who is she? Is she a new character D&D invented? I'm honestly confused. Why is she talking to Marge and Tywin and Oberyn, how does some unknown character get such prominence? What's her back story? She seems sort of familiar, but I can't quite put my thumb on it, is she a mix of characters?


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How does Jorah know that Joff is dead all the way in Essos, but Sandor and Arya still dont know and theyre in the Riverlands?

Arya and the Hound are wandering around alone, she's thought to be dead, and they rarely run into smallfolk, so who would tell them that? They essentially have no contact with anyone.

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The fight scenes (the few that havent been cut) have gone way down hill this season, ive always been a big fan of the show but i'm starting to think they are all resting on their laurels a bit now, probably thinking about all the hollywood films they will be in when they get killed off.

The fights scenes have never really been a strength of this series. Other than Blackwater, I can count only one really memorable and exceptionally well executed fight scene in 3 and 1/2 seasons (The Hounds vs Beric). Other than that, they range from mediocre, to clunky, to down right awful. The Battle at Craster's Keep is definitely in the latter camp for me. It was if the Director simply yelled out "Sword Fight" and off the actors and extra's went. The result: A poorly paced silly sequence with guys wildly swinging their pretend swords.

The thing is, it is possible to put together compelling action sequences on television. It's shame Cinemax's Banshee seems to be able to do better at this each week on 1/8 of the budget of GOT.

Edited by pleonasm

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I think the fire on Jojen's hand is the "fire of his life" or something. Means, if it goes out, he dies. Like the "This is not the day i die" in the books.


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So who the hell is that blonde woman in all those scenes at Kings Landing? Like I read every book 8 times over and I'm a huge fan of the series, but who is she? Is she a new character D&D invented? I'm honestly confused. Why is she talking to Marge and Tywin and Oberyn, how does some unknown character get such prominence? What's her back story? She seems sort of familiar, but I can't quite put my thumb on it, is she a mix of characters?

:)

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The fights scenes have never really been a strength of this series. Other than Blackwater, I can count only one really memorable and exceptionally well executed fight scene in 3 and 1/2 seasons (The Hounds vs Beric). Other than that, they range from mediocre, to clunky, to down right awful. The Battle at Craster's Keep is definitely in the latter camp for me. It was if the Director simply yelled out "Sword Fight" and off the actors and extra's went. The result: A poorly paced silly sequence with guys wildly swinging their pretend swords.

The thing is, it is possible to put together compelling action sequences on television. It's shame Cinemax's Banshee seems to be able to do better at this each week on 1/8 of the budget of GOT.

I mostly agree, but I really rated the sword fight between Ned Stark and Jaime in the first season, it was really well choreographed even though it was brief, but thats the sort of thing they seem to be cutting corners on now.

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I assume both NCW and definitely Sean Bean actually have done some sword work in one of their films. Wasn't NCW in Kingdom of Heaven?


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I assume both NCW and definitely Sean Bean actually have done some sword work in one of their films. Wasn't NCW in Kingdom of Heaven?

He's been in a few action roles. Sean Bean is an actual motherfucking beast. Got shanked in a bar and didn't give a shit.

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Lots of people in this thread not realising that Cersei is being a properly scheming in this episode, not being nice for the sake of it. It was obvious with Tywin, but apparently when it was being subtle - the Marg scene - some people are mistaking her acting nice to twist the judges' arms for 'whitewashing'.

Any excuse to whine about the show for some people ;)

Being nice to manipulate Marg is one thing, but Cersei played her trump card (marriage to Tommen) with Marg too quickly. Talking marriage would have made more sense after she learned that the mines were no longer producing gold.

In any case, I would have had her be "nice and sympathetic" to Marg but hint the marriage part to Mace. After all, he's the judge, and she would want to be sure he got the message.

Also, talking to Marg about the marriage at all is very uncharacteristic because we know Cersei didn't like Marg's influence over Joff (e.g., the disposition of the leftovers) and didn't seem to acknowledge the value of what Marg taught him. Discussing the topic with her suggests that she believes Marg to be her peer (or close to it) which Cersei would never admit. Maybe Show Cersei is more pragmatic than Book Cersei in accepting the value of Marg, but then they shouldn't have made her order Pycelle to serve the leftover food to the dogs in Episode 2.

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The fight scenes (the few that havent been cut) have gone way down hill this season, ive always been a big fan of the show but i'm starting to think they are all resting on their laurels a bit now, probably thinking about all the hollywood films they will be in when they get killed off.

I am not overly impressed by some of the fight scenes either. There is something missing in them, that you can see in shows like Vikings or ROme. The killing is not as brutal. I have gotten over people not using shields or helmets though.

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Being nice to manipulate Marg is one thing, but Cersei played her trump card (marriage to Tommen) with Marg too quickly. Talking marriage would have made more sense after she learned that the mines were no longer producing gold.

In any case, I would have had her be "nice and sympathetic" to Marg but hint the marriage part to Mace. After all, he's the judge, and she would want to be sure he got the message.

Also, talking to Marg about the marriage at all is very uncharacteristic because we know Cersei didn't like Marg's influence over Joff (e.g., the disposition of the leftovers) and didn't seem to acknowledge the value of what Marg taught him. Discussing the topic with her suggests that she believes Marg to be her peer (or close to it) which Cersei would never admit. Maybe Show Cersei is more pragmatic than Book Cersei in accepting the value of Marg, but then they shouldn't have made her order Pycelle to serve the leftover food to the dogs in Episode 2.

I agree. Her whole character in the show is ranging from mom of the year to evil schemer to victim to victim, to super victim, to still a semi-evil schemer, to victim schemer to...woman who enjoys wine and one facial expression.

My issue is that Cersei never once in her head ever disparaged of Joffrey, the closest she came was saying he was "a bit wild and strong willed." Those were her actual feelings coming from her mind, she thought he was great...not as great as her, but who can be right? She's now shit talked Joffrey and called him a monster to 1. Tyrion (WTF?), 2. Tywin (WTF?), 3. Jaime (He tells her he was a problem), 4. Marge (WTGFHSGKHFJS?), 5. Sansa (One of the closest she came to saying he was a problem, but was telling her to suck it up and be a better betrothed to him). I honestly didn't mind her scenes with Oberyn and Tywin, they were well done, was hoping they would have one with Mace too, but with Marge, it was stupid...also they're bankrupt...great, now she will have a reason not to pay back the bank other than being overzealous in her own ideas of her greatness and power.

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The bloody gate just looked stupid to me - it doesn't seem like much of an obstacle when anyone with decent rock climbing skills can get around and drop a rope/ prop up a ladder for everyone else.





I assume both NCW and definitely Sean Bean actually have done some sword work in one of their films. Wasn't NCW in Kingdom of Heaven?




Yeah but he was one of the characters who really suffer from the cuts made for the theatrical version - in that he's just some random who attacks them for the sake of a fight scene in the Director's cut he's Orlando Bloom's cousin and his hunting them down because they killed his brother (Martin Sheen)


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sorry if this has already been talked about (havent been able to keep up with the whole post)



i absolutely loved Tywin and Cersei scene...Tywin testing Cersei's ability to comprehend the situation, trying to determine if she can put aside her feelings for the "good of the family"...i recall as scene in (might be from the show rather than the books) where Cersei is talking to Tywin about her woe's that he should realize that she's the one who deserves his trust and respect rather than Jaime or Tyrion...and he tells her that he does not mistrust her because shes a woman, but rather because she's not "half as clever" as she thinks she is...i believe this was their first one-on-one scene since that moment...



so it was amazing to see him sort of giving her a chance, grilling her about the importance of the alliance with the Tyrells, explaining the lack of their funding, testing to see her reactions, absolutely wonderfully played by Charles Dance!



his description of the Iron Banks was definitely off books but I feel it was necessary and again brings things very much in to light, both for us and the Unsullied...i mean it wasn't an unreasonable question right, if the Tyrells are so ambitious and open social climbers, why is "big daddy Tywin" still so adamant for a union, specially after the situation with the Rains of Castamere :dunno:



well this explains it, they are the only family to match them in resources and he's being practical in solidifying the union to get out of debt with the Iron Banks...



i was also interested to see his expression while Cersei tried to play him about Tyrions trial...i will watch it again, but im hopeful he's smart enough to not be swayed by Cersei's pathetic attempt...i mean he never gave a shit about Joffery anyway and seems genuinely happier to have Tommen as his puppet...but then again, his obviously loathing for Tyrion might just cause him agree with Cersei...

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My biggest question is: why was Jojen's hand on fire?

mierra asked him how do they know when it will end and he saw fire in his hand. Probably meaning it will end in fire.

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The bloody gate just looked stupid to me - it doesn't seem like much of an obstacle when anyone with decent rock climbing skills can get around and drop a rope/ prop up a ladder for everyone else.

Yeah but he was one of the characters who really suffer from the cuts made for the theatrical version - in that he's just some random who attacks them for the sake of a fight scene in the Director's cut he's Orlando Bloom's cousin and his hunting them down because they killed his brother (Martin Sheen)

Man Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut is an entirely different movie, it's insane how it changed.

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Did anyone notice the Meereen navy had 93 ships? IIRC that's the count of Victarion's initial fleet. Definitely an intriguing add-in. G-d only knows where that's going.

Arya added people who sold one of her best friends to a crazy stranger.

My favorite part was going back and reading Locke theories.

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I don't recall Tommen being coronated by the High Septon in the books?

There was a whole thing where the High Septon wouldn't give his blessing until he met with Cersei about the crowns debt and the plight of the church. He was crowned by someone else, offscreen.

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