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[Book Spoilers] EP405 Discussion

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Specifically, Balerion was this big.

Also, it makes perfect sense that Dany would want to hone her skills as a ruler, and use Meereen and Slaver's Bay as a sort of trial period to learn from, before she goes for the real deal. Sure, it's not the sexiest motive for a character to have, but it's absolutely the logical thing to do.

Holy hell Balerion is big. Great picture. Yea he was 100 years old and Drogon is what? 3? BIG difference.

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I refuse to believe Jon is a shitty fighter, especially with a valaryian blade, so I'm going to go with this explanation. I suppose Oberyn did mention "longswords could be a poor choice in closed quarters."

He did. And watching the fight, you can see how the closed quarters were hindering his movements. He'd run into something and it would delay his swing. It looked very realistic and had less to do with Jon's ability and more to do with the fact that his opponent was faster and better equipped for an inside fight than Jon was- Valyrian steel or not. Even in the books, Jon gets bested by Mance with a two-handed broadsword in the training yard. He's a very good fighter, but he's not the greatest fighter ever, and neither the books nor the show ever made it out that he was. This isn't like LotR where Aragorn could kill 50 people, no matter the conditions.

Edited by sj4iy

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I'm not convinced we've seen the last of the woman who helped Jon against Karl. I believe her name is Jane McGrath. They really focused the camera on her, multiple times in episode 404. Then she helps Jon, and maybe an argument could even be made saves his life in 405. Then again focused the camera on her, and even had Jon looking at her as Craster's burned. So while the rest of those women, who are not credited, so essentially extras now disappear, maybe the 1 woman who is credited (Jane McGrath) does eventually find her way to Castle Black?



Is it possible she is a replacement for Val?


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So is Asha going to come face to face with Ramsey as hinted in the trailer or not? Stannis is the guy that clubs her and gets hold of her, she doesn't clap eyes on the Bastard in the books - and Stannis looks to be in Braavos while all this is taking place.



And no Kingsmoot = no Victarion until much later or not at all?



Nooby questions, I know :blush:


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So is Asha going to come face to face with Ramsey as hinted in the trailer or not? Stannis is the guy that clubs her and gets hold of her, she doesn't clap eyes on the Bastard in the books - and Stannis looks to be in Braavos while all this is taking place.

And no Kingsmoot = no Victarion until much later or not at all?

Nooby questions, I know :blush:

That whole thing is new material, so we just don't know. If I had to guess she and her men will fight a skirmish, suffer losses (storming a castle with fifty men is a terrible plan.) but escape, and then learn of her father's death and return to the Iron Islands setting up the Kingsmoot for next season.

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So is Asha going to come face to face with Ramsey as hinted in the trailer or not? Stannis is the guy that clubs her and gets hold of her, she doesn't clap eyes on the Bastard in the books - and Stannis looks to be in Braavos while all this is taking place.

And no Kingsmoot = no Victarion until much later or not at all?

Nooby questions, I know :blush:

It looked that way....which would be really odd...Asha fights the Boltons...and then what? She has to lose because Ramsay still has Theon until he escapes Winterfell.

So, would we just have a random failed confrontation where Asha goes there and doesn't get Theon and then? shows up again after Bayon dies...

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It looked that way....which would be really odd...Asha fights the Boltons...and then what? She has to lose because Ramsay still has Theon until he escapes Winterfell.

So, would we just have a random failed confrontation where Asha goes there and doesn't get Theon and then? shows up again after Bayon dies...

I feel like it has to end with Asha seeing what Theon has become and calling it off and fleeing. Then we can move forward with the Greyjoy plot and the Ramsey/Winterfell plot. I don't remember in the books. Does Asha know Theon is alive or do they assume him did? Also, again, not killing Balon yet mean no Kingmoot. I wonder at this point if they're planning on just waiting to kill him towards the end of the season: Kind of a Stannis ascent ending: beating the Wildlings, maybe having the back of the bank and the final "fake" king dying. Then next season we're looking at the Greyjoys and Dorne being more prevalent while Kingslanding starts to take a backseat.

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I'm not convinced we've seen the last of the woman who helped Jon against Karl. I believe her name is Jane McGrath. They really focused the camera on her, multiple times in episode 404. Then she helps Jon, and maybe an argument could even be made saves his life in 405. Then again focused the camera on her, and even had Jon looking at her as Craster's burned. So while the rest of those women, who are not credited, so essentially extras now disappear, maybe the 1 woman who is credited (Jane McGrath) does eventually find her way to Castle Black?

Is it possible she is a replacement for Val?

I wouldn't be surprised if she has a future role in the show but I hope she isn't the Val replacement.

It's bad enough Satin has probably been replaced by a little boy but Val being replaced by Gilly 2.0 is just a step too far.

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Ok, this is probably going to be completely random, and a very specific nit-pick.



But, since when did Braavosi Water-Dancing turn in to Chinese Wushu? I thought it was cool to see Arya doing moves inspired by a Contemporary Jian (Straight Sword) routine, but I think turning her into Zhang Ziyi from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon seemed a little bit "out of place". However, if that was truly Maisie doing all of that acrobatics, Bravo!



Pun very much intended.


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I did make a post just above regarding a lot of this already :) .

I agree finally to an extent I still don't like :P sorry :). I love your detailed analysis instead of saying everyone is wrong ;)

Thanks! :D I don't think anyone is wrong, just we should all chill out a little bit. Far more important/cool/concerning things to focus on other than why Cersei is nice to Marg. As people have pointed out, it's all an act to get in good with Lord Oaf.

Edited by When Harry met Sansa

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Ok, this is probably going to be completely random, and a very specific nit-pick.

But, since when did Braavosi Water-Dancing turn in to Chinese Wushu? I thought it was cool to see Arya doing moves inspired by a Contemporary Jian (Straight Sword) routine, but I think turning her into Zhang Ziyi from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon seemed a little bit "out of place". However, if that was truly Maisie doing all of that acrobatics, Bravo!

Pun very much intended.

I thought it was great to see that she had improved greatly even though her instructor has been dead/missing for two seasons.

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So is Asha going to come face to face with Ramsey as hinted in the trailer or not? Stannis is the guy that clubs her and gets hold of her, she doesn't clap eyes on the Bastard in the books - and Stannis looks to be in Braavos while all this is taking place.

And no Kingsmoot = no Victarion until much later or not at all?

Nooby questions, I know :blush:

I'm just curious about if we'll get the "here's my suckling babe" line...

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it's just an act... don't worry, she's gonna let her true colors out soon (tho maybe not till the hand-killer "escapes")

i think he shared it with the boy... they shared a secretive glance

did they burn rast? i don't recall seeing that... ruh roh could be a pudgy WW on the way

I wonder if a mauling by Ghost will turn out to be kryptonite for wights (read: the zombies; not the Others/White Walkers) in the same way fire is? Ghost does have red eyes... :D

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He did. And watching the fight, you can see how the closed quarters were hindering his movements. He'd run into something and it would delay his swing. It looked very realistic and had less to do with Jon's ability and more to do with the fact that his opponent was faster and better equipped for an inside fight than Jon was- Valyrian steel or not. Even in the books, Jon gets bested by Mance with a two-handed broadsword in the training yard. He's a very good fighter, but he's not the greatest fighter ever, and neither the books nor the show ever made it out that he was. This isn't like LotR where Aragorn could kill 50 people, no matter the conditions.

Of course, Aragorn has had about 70 more years of fighting experience than Jon has had. At Jon's age, I think Aragorn was going on his first Orc-killing foray, with two badass half-Elven foster-brothers to watch over him and teach him. And Mance has had what, 20+ more years of experience than Jon...But I'm glad they paid enough attention to physical logistics to show the difficulty with indoor fighting with a longsword.

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I thought it was great to see that she had improved greatly even though her instructor has been dead/missing for two seasons.

i was thinking the same thing...i dont recall Syrio's lessons advancing this far...and the fact that she JUST got needle back and been on the run for 2.5 seasons, yet still improved to this level is an excellent character scripting for Arya...i felt awful for her when she actually attempted to stab him and he says "smart men wear armor" (paraphrasing) i wish she'd thought of it that needle wouldn't go through armor...but as Syrio said..."every hurt is a lesson and every lesson makes you better" :agree:

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I'm not convinced we've seen the last of the woman who helped Jon against Karl. I believe her name is Jane McGrath. They really focused the camera on her, multiple times in episode 404. Then she helps Jon, and maybe an argument could even be made saves his life in 405. Then again focused the camera on her, and even had Jon looking at her as Craster's burned. So while the rest of those women, who are not credited, so essentially extras now disappear, maybe the 1 woman who is credited (Jane McGrath) does eventually find her way to Castle Black?

Is it possible she is a replacement for Val?

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. She already has a connection with Jon and she would be the one Jon gives the abomination to when Gilly goes south.

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Ok, this is probably going to be completely random, and a very specific nit-pick.

But, since when did Braavosi Water-Dancing turn in to Chinese Wushu? I thought it was cool to see Arya doing moves inspired by a Contemporary Jian (Straight Sword) routine, but I think turning her into Zhang Ziyi from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon seemed a little bit "out of place". However, if that was truly Maisie doing all of that acrobatics, Bravo!

Pun very much intended.

I remember reading somewhere she is a dancer and that was one of her reasons they hired her.

I actually googled her right now and there are a lot of videos on youtube of her dancing performances.

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Ok, this is probably going to be completely random, and a very specific nit-pick.

But, since when did Braavosi Water-Dancing turn in to Chinese Wushu? I thought it was cool to see Arya doing moves inspired by a Contemporary Jian (Straight Sword) routine, but I think turning her into Zhang Ziyi from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon seemed a little bit "out of place". However, if that was truly Maisie doing all of that acrobatics, Bravo!

Pun very much intended.

also, not sure if you know this...Masie is actually right handed, but because Arya is left handed in the books, she's learnt left-handed sword play, so those moves were even cooler when u consider that...you dont see many kids these days so dedicated, very impressive!

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That whole thing is new material, so we just don't know. If I had to guess she and her men will fight a skirmish, suffer losses (storming a castle with fifty men is a terrible plan.) but escape, and then learn of her father's death and return to the Iron Islands setting up the Kingsmoot for next season.

It looked that way....which would be really odd...Asha fights the Boltons...and then what? She has to lose because Ramsay still has Theon until he escapes Winterfell.

So, would we just have a random failed confrontation where Asha goes there and doesn't get Theon and then? shows up again after Bayon dies...

I feel like it has to end with Asha seeing what Theon has become and calling it off and fleeing. Then we can move forward with the Greyjoy plot and the Ramsey/Winterfell plot. I don't remember in the books. Does Asha know Theon is alive or do they assume him did? Also, again, not killing Balon yet mean no Kingmoot. I wonder at this point if they're planning on just waiting to kill him towards the end of the season: Kind of a Stannis ascent ending: beating the Wildlings, maybe having the back of the bank and the final "fake" king dying. Then next season we're looking at the Greyjoys and Dorne being more prevalent while Kingslanding starts to take a backseat.

Cheers for the replies.

Yeah, because the show has gone left-field, we cant really assume too much. It's just guess work. Shouldn't be like that. Seems like in the next few episodes, they need to fit an awful lot in. Stannis arrives at the Wall and defeats the Wildlings and co but - he's in Braavos as Asha is fronting Ramsey but she can't come away with Theon, because

1) Stannis hasn't arrived

2) Theon actually escapes on his own

and

3) Balon is still alive.

Even if Balon dying is the trigger for Asha to go to Theon/Ramsey, it has to go away from the books again because there's so much in between!! Bloody hell.

Probably agree that Asha sees Theon, is seen off by Ramsey and is then captured later by a money laden Stannis. Head banging stuff.

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