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[Book Spoilers] EP405 Discussion

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So far I love show Tommen and don't think Cersei's prophecy will go down well if it is true. Tommen is just too likable and sweet to die!



I actually loved Daario in this episode as well but that's the problem, he is just too likable and I should want to punch him in the face not cheer him on.


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Why does Stannis have to go to Braavos? I don't see any scenario in which that makes sense. Two Braavosi bankers are already on site in Westerns - seeking loan payback from one king or another- in the books. Why not in the show?

Even if they did have a representative in Westeros on the show, they're still at this point trying to collect from the Lannisters/King Tommen. They have no reason to go to Stannis yet, so he's going to them. It's sorta on the way north to The Wall, and it allows them to kill time while The Wall plotline catches up. I mean really it seemed like Stannis was ready to head to The Wall at the end of last season, so they had to delay him somehow.

Edited by RumHam

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In the show, Barristan never sat on the small council. Supposedly, Robert didn't trust him enough (even if he did pardon him).

Wasn't he there as Robert's bodyguard though, the one time Robert actually attended a meeting?

The "the whore is pregnant!" meeting in which Jorah's informant status was confirmed by Varys and/or Littlefinger (to Ned's chagrin)?

Edited by Sour Robin

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Wasn't he there as Robert's bodyguard though, the one time Robert actually attended a meeting?

The "the whore is pregnant!" meeting in which Jorah's informant status was confirmed by Varys and/or Littlefinger (to Ned's chagrin)?

I don't think he was in that scene.

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Did I miss something in the show where he plans to go to Braavos for money? If not, I see no need for it. Word of Stannis' claim is no secret - and the Crown is already defaulting. When Braavosi loans are not paid princes fall and new princes rise to take their place.

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Wasn't he there as Robert's bodyguard though, the one time Robert actually attended a meeting?

The "the whore is pregnant!" meeting in which Jorah's informant status was confirmed by Varys and/or Littlefinger (to Ned's chagrin)?

I just checked and he wasn't.

Did I miss something in the show where he plans to go to Braavos for money? If not, I see no need for it. Word of Stannis' claim is no secret - and the Crown is already defaulting. When Braavosi loans are not paid princes fall and new princes rise to take their place.

It was heavily implied a few episodes back when Davos mentioned the Iron Bank and got that lightbulb over his head facial expression.

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Did I miss something in the show where he plans to go to Braavos for money? If not, I see no need for it. Word of Stannis' claim is no secret - and the Crown is already defaulting. When Braavosi loans are not paid princes fall and new princes rise to take their place.

Isn't he in Braavos in one of the previews?

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i'm going to have to re-read this part in the books, but I always thought it was the Iron Banks emissary from KL who hunts down Stannis after being jerked around by Cersei...i always liked that part about the Iron Banks, "if you will not pay your debts, we will put someone in your place who will", uncaring, cold and calculated...



the idea of Stannis going to them and asking for a handout seems odd with his character so far...but i'm willing to keep an open mind to see how it plays out


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i'm going to have to re-read this part in the books, but I always thought it was the Iron Banks emissary from KL who hunts down Stannis after being jerked around by Cersei...i always liked that part about the Iron Banks, "if you will not pay your debts, we will put someone in your place who will", uncaring, cold and calculated...

the idea of Stannis going to them and asking for a handout seems odd with his character so far...but i'm willing to keep an open mind to see how it plays out

It was actually a different guy than the one bugging Cersei, but yeah that was gist of it. I guess they figure this way they give Stannis something to do, maybe the figured there would be more drama in him having to convince them. Also they may want to introduce Braavos so people aren't like "huh?" when Arya heads there.

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IMDB lists Peter Dinklage as being in this episode, so that makes it hard to check if there is one where we was not.

This is the only one I can note.

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It was actually a different guy than the one bugging Cersei, but yeah that was gist of it. I guess they figure this way they give Stannis something to do, maybe the figured there would be more drama in him having to convince them. Also they may want to introduce Braavos so people aren't like "huh?" when Arya heads there.

fair point...

do you remember the scene after the RW, Arya's first kill? She pulls out the coin and whispers Valar Morgulis? i cannot tell you how many of my unsullied friends expected Jaqen Hagar to magically appear when she says the words and kill the Hound and rescue her... :bang:

yes i needed new friends, thats why i'm so thrilled to be a part of this board! :bowdown:

might be interesting to get a glimpse of Bravos..who knows, maybe a pass-over on the House of Black and White? ;)

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IMDB lists Peter Dinklage as being in this episode, so that makes it hard to check if there is one where we was not.

This is the only one I can note.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that he was definitely not in season one episode seven, and that they thought he missed one episode each season.

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Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that he was definitely not in season one episode seven, and that they thought he missed one episode each season.

He missed 1.07, 3.09 and 4.05, and will miss 4.09. He was in every episode of season 2.

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Well, word travels between Kings Landing and Meereen quickly, one would almost think they were neighbours :lol:

So in the space of 2-3 episodes, Dany has learned that Joffrey is dead and the SC knows Dany is remaining in Slavers Bay. Yet Asha has taken 5-6 episodes to sail around westeros :lol:

I think the geography of the Vale might be changed in the show maybe... The Bloody Gate seems to have almost replaced the Gates of the Moon?

Edited by HelenaAndTheMachine

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He got his tongue pulled out in Season 1 by Ilyn Payne so I don't think the Arryns would take him on as a singer.

Well yes I was thinking of him playing instruments or something, not returning as a singer.

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I cannot be the only one who didn't like the potrayal of Marg and Cersei, right? Cersei absolutely despises the girl...I get that the show will always be an adaptation of the books, but I can't stand when the show changes central themes, like how insane Cersei actually is...but maybe I'm just overreacting too early in the season and they'll change it up as the season progresses. One can hope, I guess.


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For gods sake did you miss my line where I said I don't think he is alive?! Another poster was asking why people are taking from that convo that Syrio is alive. I was just explaining other peoples opinions to them. You are barking up the wrong tree. I completely agree Syrio is dead & gone & not coming back...

That was me! Thanks for your reply. I understood completely that you were saying why other people seemed to interpret the Hound's dialog to mean that Syrio survived - not that you yourself felt that way.

Sorry you got grief for being nice.

While I fervently hope Syrio escaped, I doubt it. :crying: I loved his character in the books and Syrio was great on the show as well.

I sure didn't think the Hound thinks Syrio survived, as he demonstrated to Arya the odds against (as well as stated) that a unarmored man with a stick, even the "greatest swordsman in the world", could beat an armored man with a sword. The only way for Syrio to live is to run, and well...

I thought the Hound was trying to (1) hurt Arya's feelings by making fun of Syrio and (2) give her a dose of reality medicine as far as fighting is concerned.

Arya's water dancing was lovely, though. I love Arya. :wub:

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Lots of people in this thread not realising that Cersei is being a properly scheming in this episode, not being nice for the sake of it. It was obvious with Tywin, but apparently when it was being subtle - the Marg scene - some people are mistaking her acting nice to twist the judges' arms for 'whitewashing'.

Any excuse to whine about the show for some people ;)

Jojen, Lysa & Sansa were all so good in this episode. Slight shame that the Jon Arryn reveal wasn't left until Only Cat, but that scene is still destined to be epic.

Cersei scheming to get Mace on her side in this way doesn't make much sense. Cersei was worried about Marg with Joff who is much stronger a character than Tommen. So she is willing to make one of her chief rivals queen just to make sure Tyrion is killed? If Tyrion was found innocent would it even be that difficult for Cersei to have Tyrion killed? She is making so many moves to make sure Tyrion is found guilty anyway. Marg and the Tyrells are a much bigger threat to Cersei than Tyrion. So basically the whole scheming is give Marg Tyrell the highest position possible to try and gain favor with one of the three judges? This is the poorest 'scheming' possible. Cersei talks of power plenty yet she is willing to give control of the kingdom to the Tyrells just so she doesn't have to deal with killing a dwarf? Of which she is working many angles on making sure the trial is a landslide against him anyway. You don't think this is a very poorly lopsided trade off? I'll make you queen if you can help me get one third of the judges against my brother.

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