Envie Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I don't really see the show writers being that subtle as to allude to a metaphor in the burning hand. They've never made up stuff that vague before - usually they smack viewers over the head a few times with very literal 'hints' (such as fiddling with the necklace again to remind viewers the necklace was poison. I think the burning hand is intended to be taken literally - Jojen has seen his own death and it's by fire. What that means is anybody's guess as this has moved way off into not written in the book territory and could very well be more reveal of material we've not read yet. I'm starting to get a little annoyed about it... not because I don't expect the show to eventually move on past where we are in the last book (it's inevitable that's going to happen at least moreso next season) ... but what's really peeving me is that we have absolutely NO idea which of these many bits and pieces are actual real stuff George has put into the story to come (which D&D know the basic story line to the end) and which bits and pieces they are pulling completely out of their collective asses and making up as they go along for "good tv" drama .... that's really pissing me off now. I watch Jojen's hand burning and don't have a damn clue if that's something they just made up because it looks cool or if they're seriously spoiling events to come in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 Well, Michelle MacLaren did say that the show would be moving beyond the books "more and more." The burning hand isn't really that much of a spoiler if it strictly refers to Jojen's death, since we all knew Jojen was never going to die peacefully of old age, so if the burning hand alludes to Jojen's death, that it's by fire as opposed to something else isn't really that important, except for those who were super attached to the Jojenpaste theory, I guess. If the burning hand refers to Meera's untimely death, on the other hand--and that is a possibility, as Jojen sees the burning hand in response to Meera's question "How will we know the end?"--then that is a big spoiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envie Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Yeah, see, that's the thing. We have no way of knowing which things at this point are spoilers and which things they're just making up because it's cool television drama. I am basically not taking ANYTHING happening from here on out (that didn't happen in the books) as any sort of defacto clues to the story. Nothing! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binga Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 The actor who played Jojen gave a hell of a performance today. It was the standout moment of the episode aside from Jon's little sword move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardoromell Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 He says "i saw you die tonight, I saw your body burn .... I saw the snow fall and bury your bones" Did he just see those in the fire..He does not mention of dreams... He finished brans vision and was straing at his burning hand/hand on fire... Like Mel does .... if so this could mean the Other and Rhollor could well be one entity as discussed and debated before. could he use his own blood sacrifice/his blood of the first men to obtain those visions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clawson24 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I heard it as "even Hodor", but I could be wrong :dunno: Yeah, that whole sunny weirwood/hill thing looks way less sinister than how I pictured it in the book Probably because in the books it's described as being a cave under a massive forest of weirwoods, not just one lone one sitting on a hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clawson24 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I think the speech was directed at Bran. Now the simple explanation for the "fire" is that he saw Crasters Keep burning. But since the speech was directed at Bran it could mean that either Bran will end by fire or Bran might control fire (aka mount or warg a dragon) haven't seen anyone mention that yet.Anyway I think fire in this scene symbolizes "Summer"... And Jojen's speech indicates that Bran will be the only survivor by the time "summer comes" or Bran will bring Summer back (ironic, since the motto of his house is "Winter is Coming"). I definitely think the fire was specific to Jojen. I think he has already seen a vision of himself burning, and the way they portrayed that on the show was actually pretty cool. There's nothing to indicate in the books or the show to this point (to my knowledge) that Jojen knows how/when Bran will die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clawson24 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Well, Michelle MacLaren did say that the show would be moving beyond the books "more and more." The burning hand isn't really that much of a spoiler if it strictly refers to Jojen's death, since we all knew Jojen was never going to die peacefully of old age, so if the burning hand alludes to Jojen's death, that it's by fire as opposed to something else isn't really that important, except for those who were super attached to the Jojenpaste theory, I guess. If the burning hand refers to Meera's untimely death, on the other hand--and that is a possibility, as Jojen sees the burning hand in response to Meera's question "How will we know the end?"--then that is a big spoiler. Notice though that in the vision he was having, he wasn't envisioning her burning, only himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igrewupinKL Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 i think either 1. the great weirwood will be burnt down along with jojen2. jojen will be turned into a wight when he dies and thus burnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I dont think the show are going to put any hints, I think they want it to be a shock to the viewers. My only issue is there has been nothing to very little said of Rhaegar, one of my unsullied friends doesnt even know who Rhaegar is. Jon's true parentage is one of the biggest twists in the story. I think they'll definitely build up Rhaegar and Lyanna's profiles before the R+L=J bomb is dropped. They'll need to if they want viewers to realise R+L=J is a BIG issue and Jon's parents are iconic/important people. For book readers it is a massive shock/mystery so I can't see them not putting time into this plot line. It's pretty much the 'Luke, I am your father' of the story, making it more interesting and richer to the plot. I'm betting they'll have Lyanna revealed as the KotLT at some point. That will put attention on her as far as 'historic' characters go. People will really dig the female beauty being a badass like her niece. Rhaegar has had several mentions so far but nothing attention grabbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Personally, I interpret it as the end, as in the end of the War for Dawn. Last week the episode ended with one of Craster's son being turned into a Wights. This week's episode ends with Craster's Keep being burned to the ground. It will end in fire. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonsnake Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Do I recall the books incorrectly, but wasn't Jojen's death supposed to be back at The Neck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon And Stars Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Jojen: Meera and I, even Hodor...we're only here to guide you. He's waiting for you. You have to find it. YOU have to make it.Bran: We will.Jojen (to Bran): This...this isn't the end. Not for you. Not yet.Meera: How...will we know the end?Jojen (looking at his burning hand): You'll know.My immediate thought was Jojen will die sooner and they will have to burn him so he won't become a wight. Also Bran (and possibly Meera, if she isn't already gone) will meet dragons/dragonfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 All it made me think is Jojen will die in the north before the Others are defeated, so his body will need to be burned. He saw that just as he saw Karl's body being burned. That's how I understand it. He is dying, and the burning hand is Jojen seeing his body burning in his funeral pyre. He knows he is dying and that he doesn't have long to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Dustin Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I was very impressed with how Jojen was handled in this episode. It is about time that we were given some exposition on the extent of Jojen's powers. I also took the burning hand to mean that he would die 'beyond the wall' and be burned after becoming a wight. I wouldn't be surprised if Jojen dies before season's end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberoth Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Thought it was meant to represent his life fire* dwindling. Though in retrospect it was probably just him seeing his death is near. *thing used to make the shadowbaby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I took it to mean Melisandre would be involved. She has a vision of Bloodraven and Bran in ADWD, thinking them the champions of the Great Other. If Jojen's death is going to be death by fire... well, Melisandre's the only one in the area known for killing people with fire, who also happens to think they're the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Jojen's hand was the most curious moment of the episode ! Love reading all the spec here ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 My first thought when seeing his hand aflame (through his own eyes, not the others ... the others couldn't see the flame) is that the size of the flame is an indication of his life essence ... his spirit if you will. The greater the flame, the more life he has. When the flame begins to decrease in size, it means his life force is becoming diminished. I have a similar idea, although it's reversed in a way. I thought it signified the beginning of the end for him. His hand is burning and the more the fire spreads the less time he has left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I say Dragonfire. Lets face it, if Ser Barristan never gets around to setting Dany straight on her Dad, brother and what REALLY happened when the Targ dynasty was overthrown, then Dany will go on to destroy the userper's dogs whereever they may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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