{Book Spoilers} Cersei the Judicial Manipulator Appreciation Thread

[Koi No Yokan]

Cersei less vicious? Remember how bitingly vindictive and petty she was at Joffrey's wedding feast.

If you don't Pycelle, Brienne and Sansa can remind you. Cersei was smiling gleefully during the dwarf play.

It's definitely there in patches, I think people just have AFFC Cersei so ingrained in their minds that they forget we're not even at that point in the story yet.

[Red Tiger]

That too. AFFC Cersei is utterly insane because she A. Lost her son B. Her Father and C. Nobody is there to prevent her from doing whatever the hell she wants. That is a recipe for utter disaster.

[TFP]

Important (see affc comments) to remember that an awful lot of weight will fall on cersei's shoulders for the series after this one to be kept watchable. So important to keep cersei as interesting as possible. I think they're doing a good job. Even a slight hint that she'd quite like to trade loras in for oberyn?

[Trillian]

I think we'll see the change after Tywin's death.

Yes, for now she's a bit "softer" than in the books (today they definitely added a wee bit of a depression to her character), but I still hear a lot of Unsullied calling her a manipulative raging hooker, so things are fine. Personally, I really like Lena's portrayal of Cersei and the face she made when Margaery expressed her doubts about calling her "mother" or "sister" had me cracking.

[avernite]

The bit I found was most interesting was the clear identification of Joffrey as Cersei's first child.

It continues to amaze Catelyn didn't respond to her 'brown-haired boy' with 'Your grace, if you had a baby before Joffrey the whole realm would know' but oh well :)

[Chebyshov]

Cersei's scenes were the best part of that episode. The fact that people jumped on the "white-washing" train immediately was really confusing. I guess people really don't have faith in the show-runners.

[King Theon]

So many people on other threads not grasping that all three scenes were founded on judge manipulation. All three seasons were superb, Tywin calling her out on her efforts was funny too.

When do people think Loras will take the Kingsguard by the way? Next season, once Tywin's dead? Or this season? Makes more sense to save it for next season in my eyes, although without Tywin there to enforce the wedding what would be the reason for signing up to avoid it?

[Asshat by the Shadow]

Her scenes also served several other purposes. Reminding the audience of Myrcella, now that the younger Lannister children are out of Joffrey's shadow, giving some exposition of Dorne, introducing the sand snakes and the water gardens, further shoving the Iron Bank down the show audience's throats, which is something many unsullied will still completely forget about, but it's important to bring up that there must be a face to the Iron Bank, especially with the introduction of Tycho Nestoris next episode, and finally it makes sense for Cersei to propose the marriage to Tommen if she's only doing it to get Mace on her side for the trial. I'm looking forward to Cersei going full bitch-mode on the Tyrells soon though

[Tadco26]

It was a smart move by TVCersei to try and manipulate the judges, but it further distanced herself from BookCersei as a character. BookCersei isn't subtle, so having an extended subtle manipulation felt wrong. It's also extremely questionable how much she would have to gain from these subtle manipulations. She doesn't really offer anything to the judges that they weren't lined up to get anyway. Sure she plays the willing participant in her own marriage and Tommen's, but both were likely outcomes with or without her consent. And if/when she returns to full protest in both areas it will be even more jarring, or if she doesn't it will further distances herself from her book counterpart.

[Chebyshov]

I love how Marg said her "sister or mother" line...a good call back to last season where Cersei said "if you call me 'sister' again, I'll have you strangled in your sleep." It looked like Marg was obviously testing Cersei here, and Cersei's face right after was priceless. Lena was really, really spot on.

It's a shame that Show!Cersei is almost definitely going to become unhinged next season. I like this plotting, passive-aggressive Cersei.

[Bael's Bastard]

I like how she has been portrayed. She is doing everything she can to make sure Tyrion dies. This is temporary. And when everything goes down so will most of her facade.

[Red Tiger]

So many people on other threads not grasping that all three scenes were founded on judge manipulation. All three seasons were superb, Tywin calling her out on her efforts was funny too.

When do people think Loras will take the Kingsguard by the way? Next season, once Tywin's dead? Or this season? Makes more sense to save it for next season in my eyes, although without Tywin there to enforce the wedding what would be the reason for signing up to avoid it?

Considering Loras has done absolutely nothing of note as a Kingsguard, they might just decide that he doesn't join. Loras joined the Kingsguard mostly cause he couldn't get over Renly, this version seems to not have that problem as much.

[Natalie Underfoot]

I felt like this was classic Cersei. Only focused on what she wants in the moment: Tyrion's Death. I also don't think she was being subtle at all. Cersei in the book's problem is that she was short sighted and convinced she was smarter than she was. She makes decisions based on emotions and so although she imagines herself as a female version of Twyin she never gets his results because she can't be detached. I feel like the show captured this Marg saw right through it and was testing her with the "sister and mother' line and gave her what she wanted. Tywin called her on it and Oberyn was looking at her side-eyed a lot. She thinks she's pulling off this big coup and all of them are just letting her talk.

I also find show Cersei to be pretty bad. She wanted Bran killed, there is mention of her having another girl beaten when she was younger and she's pretty casually cruel. This is basically how I felt about her in the books too. It's not until AFFC that the prophecy and her paranoia really are unleashed.

[Sand11751]

Neither version of Cersei is particularly good. I used to think Book Cersei loved her children unconditionally, as with Joff, but with Tommen there's a bit of "I'll love you if you do what I want." There's no way Marg and Oberyn couldn't see through Cersei's act last night. If neither of them, they're both stupid.

[~No One~]

I have to agree with all those who have said that we haven't even got into FFC material. The cray-cray will come, oh ye of little faith.

Her "unhinging" moments in the series will be her father dying (they've played up her desire to be daddy's fave so much in the show) and then Tyrion's escape. As soon as Tywin's gone, there'll be no one to make her marry Loras.....notice how her wedding is a fortnight after Tommen's? Tywin'll never make it to then.

She's already distanced from Jamie, and her council is gonna be Pycelle, whom she hates, and who knows who else. She's already started her trip to Drunkentown, and as soon as she starts to see Marge's manipulation, she'll fully flip out. They even put in that scene where she steps between Tommy and Margey in this episode.

Groundwork for batsh*t crazy hitting the fan is there, people. S5 will be Lena's time to shine. I for one, can't wait.

[Gail]

Can't wait for batshitcrazyCersei next season. But like what the others said, her scenes have good purpose.

1)judge manipulation

2)information dump for future episodes/seasons(IB, Myrcella, Sand snakes, Dorne)

3)better Cersei downfall.

And also, I don't believe that Cersei was obviously incompetent and crazy on GOT to SOS. Though people know she doesn't know how to control power=King Jeoffrey.

[Tadco26]

TVCersei is just so bland and uninspired. Her attempts to manipulate the judges with things that they were already set to get anyway made it hard to even call it manipulation.

I think Atia of the Julii from HBO's Rome is closer to BookCersei. It's unfortunate that TVCersei isn't more like her.

If you haven't seen Rome, I recommend it. Here is the character description for Atia:

Niece of Caesar, Atia of the Julii is snobbish, willful, cunning, and sexually voracious. In a culture in which women lack formal power and men leave for years on military campaigns, the wives, daughters, and mothers have built powerful networks and alliances completely independent of the men's worlds. Atia is among the women who serve as the shadow rulers of Rome.

Atia is greedy and ambitious, and will do virtually anything to get what she wants. Seduction, humiliation and violence (including murder) are all tools acceptable to her; Atia's occasional hypocrisy is overshadowed by her general acceptance of her own extremely corrupt and unethical nature.

Fiercely protective of her family and their social status, Atia's motives usually involve advancement or self-preservation for the Julii. Her manipulations often extend to her own relatives; feeling that she knows best, Atia will not let even her children thwart her plans.

Replace Julii with Lannister and you get a near perfect adaptation of BookCersei. TV viewers shouldn't be asking themselves who the villain is that replaces Joffrey because Cersei should have been right up there with him thru this point of the story in her own ways.

[Lord_Dustin]

Something to notice about Cersei this week:

She only takes two sips of wine throughout the entire episode and she doesn't finish the glass that her father gave her before leaving.

I think these scenes could become an important counterpoint to the type of plotting that we are going to see next season. Even last week she was drunk during her confrontation with Jaime.

[RoamingRonin]

I love how Marg said her "sister or mother" line...a good call back to last season where Cersei said "if you call me 'sister' again, I'll have you strangled in your sleep." It looked like Marg was obviously testing Cersei here, and Cersei's face right after was priceless. Lena was really, really spot on.

It's a shame that Show!Cersei is almost definitely going to become unhinged next season. I like this plotting, passive-aggressive Cersei.

This this so much this. Natalie and Lena must have good chemistry on set because they are getting better and better in their scenes together.

If written well, Lena could land an Emmy for what goes down in the future. There's a lot of good material for her character.

[~No One~]

This this so much this. Natalie and Lena must have good chemistry on set because they are getting better and better in their scenes together.

If written well, Lena could land an Emmy for what goes down in the future. There's a lot of good material for her character.

Unless they keep nominating Clarke. Gag.

But yes, S5 is Cersei's time to shine!