[Book spoilers] "The Iron Bank is like a temple"

[Tixu Oty]

In this case:

Absence of evidence ... is evidence of absence.

Well right back at ya ;)

The panic heart attack option is certainly no more likely than the poisoning option.

Some hint - that you didn't bother to mention - could be found for your theory and there is a certain style to it. But in the end I just consider the fact that you can never know for sure that someone is going to have a heart attack vs. the certainty that someone will die from a well chosen, well dosed and correctly administered poison. So poison it is for me. Simple as that. I don't read latin but it doesn't seem like Occam would disagree.

[salmonsnake]

The work of art is a mystery, not a problem to be solved, a work of imagination and artistic expression, not a set of facts and functions. The reading involves its own imaginative process, wild or sober, and supplements the given with the implied and the possible. A contemplative framework is constructed, but it is loose and open, sloppy even. A game of incomplete information, except you're not trying to win. Occam's razor has no edge for it.

[boojam]

The work of art is a mystery, not a problem to be solved, a work of imagination and artistic expression, not a set of facts and functions. The reading involves its own imaginative process, wild or sober, and supplements the given with the implied and the possible. A contemplative framework is constructed, but it is loose and open, sloppy even. A game of incomplete information, except you're not trying to win. Occam's razor has no edge for it.

Someone should ask George, because this poison thing is somebodies invention.

It even exists in the Wiki , without citation.

The Kindly Man's words taken a face value imply the guy had heart failure, no mention of poison is made.

As I said this is more elegant since it implies subtlety.

I find that aesthetic trumps adding something not made explicit.

[TurkeyRod]

For the sake of the show keeping things simple, and looking at how they've merged / deleted parts in the past I think this is totally possible.

[salmonsnake]

Someone should ask George, because this poison thing is somebodies invention.

It even exists in the Wiki , without citation.

The Kindly Man's words taken a face value imply the guy had heart failure, no mention of poison is made.

As I said this is more elegant since it implies subtlety.

I find that aesthetic trumps adding something not made explicit.

Three men set sail across the Shivering Sea, but halfway through their journey, they notice the tip of an iceberg ahead of them. One gets a heart attack and collapses dead, another ends up in the ocean and drowns, but the third man steers away and reaches the intended destination. He is a sailor, after all. The other two were a maester from Oldtown and a ruby merchant from Pentos. In a cold, dark cell, the sailor reflects on his life, which has been so full of hardship and struggle. He thinks of the glimmer of rubies and stares at his callous hands, silent.

[Talking Hodor]

Did anyone else get the significance of this and what implications might come from it?

The Iron Bank is like a temple...the House of Black and White is the Temple of the Many Faced God...where the Faceless Men train. Connection between the two confirmed? Maybe...or am I overthinking it.

Braavos is riddled with temples. Even if this is to be taken as more than merely a simile, it's quite possible that the Iron Bank has religious overtones. Could you imagine if that were the case nowadays? Egomaniacal investment bankers now not only think they're God's gift to mankind, they are priests in control of all our money. Ugh.

[Tixu Oty]

The work of art is a mystery, not a problem to be solved, a work of imagination and artistic expression, not a set of facts and functions. The reading involves its own imaginative process, wild or sober, and supplements the given with the implied and the possible. A contemplative framework is constructed, but it is loose and open, sloppy even. A game of incomplete information, except you're not trying to win. Occam's razor has no edge for it.

Solving the mystery is part of the fun. The fact that GRRM leaves so many ambiguities is enjoyable and what makes him a great author. He clearly does write with the intentions of leaving clues, but not to many of it, and we are definitely supposed to pick up the pieces and figure it all out. Plus we just love it.

[tsarrast]

The FM Organization is an extremely powerful one, with assassins that can literally change faces, that has reach the world over.

The Iron Bank has an absurd amount of money, is extremely powerful, has reach the world over.

They both are from the SAME CITY.

Without any hints at all, given the times, it's very plausible that the two interact together in some way, given that they have different domains (assassins/espionage vs. bank/money), yet could synergistically increase each other's power and reach.

I think it's very interesting to think about ways they are interacting... and I think at the VERY LEAST, the Iron Bank hires Faceless Men.

There have been a lot of subtle hints that it could be more than this... both being temples, using iron coins... but nothing definitive. I think it's possible the two are further intertwined.

[Omni]

I highly doubt that the Iron Bank has ever HIRED the faceless men. They might own and control them, but never hire them.

Why? What does it cost to hire the FM?

Depends entirely on who you are, if you're a begger with no money you pay with whatever you have, and that's enough.

If you're Tywin Lannister it'd probably cost you a mountain, full of gold ore.

And if you're the Iron Bank... well let's just say that no matter how much they'd gain by killing somebody through the FM, it'd likely cost them a hell of a lot more.

There are hundreds of temples in Braavos, they're probably completely unrelated.

Registering and writing my first post on this forum: Check.

[relish5k]

I absolutely see the two as being connected. If everyone is so afraid of the Iron Bank it has to be because it is a guarantee that those who mess with them will be destroyed. And the FM, as an organization, have quite a high success rate. Also, the FM when contracted out are quite expensive, and it's not like the House of Black and White is particularly flashy, so it would make sense if they're helping to fund the IBoB. All three branches - temple, bank, and assassins are based in Bravos and seem to have practical and philosophical ties.

[Petyr Patter]

I absolutely see the two as being connected. If everyone is so afraid of the Iron Bank it has to be because it is a guarantee that those who mess with them will be destroyed. And the FM, as an organization, have quite a high success rate. Also, the FM when contracted out are quite expensive, and it's not like the House of Black and White is particularly flashy, so it would make sense if they're helping to fund the IBoB. All three branches - temple, bank, and assassins are based in Bravos and seem to have practical and philosophical ties.

I don't know about this. The Iron Bank's slogan is "always gets its due." Death is one of the surest ways out of monetary obligations. I suppose your heirs can they be asked to fulfill the obligation, but that doesn't strike me as progress, more of a back up plan. Intimidation would be progress. However, the Faceless Men don't do intimidation. They do death: quietly and typically made to look like an accident.

Hence, it appears when stuck with a delinquent, the Iron Bank funds their enemies in exchange for their enemy agreeing to take on the entirety of the debt.

[Tixu Oty]

I highly doubt that the Iron Bank has ever HIRED the faceless men. They might own and control them, but never hire them.

Why? What does it cost to hire the FM?

Depends entirely on who you are, if you're a begger with no money you pay with whatever you have, and that's enough.

If you're Tywin Lannister it'd probably cost you a mountain, full of gold ore.

And if you're the Iron Bank... well let's just say that no matter how much they'd gain by killing somebody through the FM, it'd likely cost them a hell of a lot more.

There are hundreds of temples in Braavos, they're probably completely unrelated.

Registering and writing my first post on this forum: Check.

Welcome :)

And I agree with your analysis.

[AzorAhai42]

I don't think there is any actual connection between the two, as far as governance. However, I would not be surprised at all if the Iron Bank hired the faceless men throughout the ages, because the faceless men are seen as an elite force of people, and the Iron Bank seems like they aren't hurting for funds.

[AZAXD]

I don't know about this. The Iron Bank's slogan is "always gets its due." Death is one of the surest ways out of monetary obligations. I suppose your heirs can they be asked to fulfill the obligation, but that doesn't strike me as progress, more of a back up plan. Intimidation would be progress. However, the Faceless Men don't do intimidation. They do death: quietly and typically made to look like an accident.

Hence, it appears when stuck with a delinquent, the Iron Bank funds their enemies in exchange for their enemy agreeing to take on the entirety of the debt.

This makes the most sense to me. Might even be explained when Davos and Stannis get to Braavos.

[thoughtless711]

I love this idea- but maybe it's just because I see the Iron Bank like the wall street of westeros so I can draw that association. The "kindly man" does seem to have many connections of all sorts. I also find it odd that the season 5 casting sheets do not call for the "kindly man'- making me think we have already been introduced to him. They could of already cast him, surely, but if he's already someone we know my bets are on the "iron banker" Tycho Nestoris. It would be an awesome twist. I forget when he appears in Jon's POV in comparison with the 'kindly man' leaving Arya's...

The show might do it. As for the book- who the hell knows.

[Tixu Oty]

I also find it odd that the season 5 casting sheets do not call for the "kindly man'- making me think we have already been introduced to him. They could of already cast him, surely, but if he's already someone we know my bets are on the "iron banker" Tycho Nestoris. It would be an awesome twist. I forget when he appears in Jon's POV in comparison with the 'kindly man' leaving Arya's...

I don't think the kindly man ever leaves Arya's pov. I believe he will be (or already has been) cast as a specific character, since the calling sheets are still partial. But yes sure, you never know with faceless men so he could be someone we've already met. But Tycho? It sure would be a cool twist but I don't see it happening.