Jump to content

[Book Spoilers] Forel vs. Trant debate


kiasyd

Recommended Posts

Yeah, I'm not seeing any similarity. It's a real disservice to the Hound as a character if it's shown that way.

Arya and the Hound are going in different directions. She's headed to where he once was, and he's headed away.

In the books, he's moved from hating someone (Gregor) to loving someone (Sansa) as what drives him. Arya is doing the opposite, she's lost everyone she loves (her family), and is driven by hate (her kill list).

When he dies, he doesn't mention Gregor at all, the Hound dies there, because he's been dying all along. He's been becoming Sandor again all this time, slowly but surely.

So yeah, not seeing a Gregor parallel, in fact, the opposite.

Also, checking out the promos, they seem to be getting along well enough in the scenes to come. In the books, she thinks of him as Sandor, too. Takes him off her list. Thinks, "I wouldn't have to kill him." Hopefully, the show will capture a bit of the subtlety.

The show's definitely going that way since they made it a point she has him on the list, and despite some people wondering why he wouldn't have heard it until now, clearly it's so the audience realizes she's deliberately taken him off the list a few episodes from now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am going slightly off topic with this and i have mentioned it elsewhere without response, surely the most important part of this scene is the foreshadowing. Or am i just making up that Arya vs Hound in this scene emulates the Viper vs the mountain.

I think its foreshadowing Arya to Braavos more than anything else. The Viper doesn't die because of "quick but no armor < slower in armor." He indeed WINS because of that, like Bronn did, but ends up losing anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The show's definitely going that way since they made it a point she has him on the list, and despite some people wondering why he wouldn't have heard it until now, clearly it's so the audience realizes she's deliberately taken him off the list a few episodes from now.

True, she did make a point of it. I'm just kind of reasoning through what might happen based on the books, just for the hell of it, she could kill him for all we know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Slightly off topic, but why would the "First Sword of Braavos" be acting as an itinerant fencing teacher in Westeros? I always just assumed that it was just one of the usual exaggerations so common with the charming, roguish character type, but most people seem to take it as fact. Is there some back story on Syrio that I missed somewhere?

That is a good point , why are both Jaqen and Syrio in KL at the same tine?

No, I do not take it that Jaqen and Syrio are one in the same.

Both are from Braavos.

I guess I though that Syrio was the X-sword of Braavos, but what the hell that means I don't know.

Braavo, Brasvos, what the hell does it mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bronn dissed him in season 2, too.

Well, show version of Trant has to take the roles of both Trant and Boros Blount (the only truly incompetent / worthless KG member). As I recall from the books, it was Blount that Bronn threatened.

Also, checking out the promos, they seem to be getting along well enough in the scenes to come. In the books, she thinks of him as Sandor, too. Takes him off her list. Thinks, "I wouldn't have to kill him." Hopefully, the show will capture a bit of the subtlety.

I really hope they can do justice to it on the show - her travels with the Hound can conclude in awesome fashion if they do it right. They're set up some good potential with some of the previous dialogue they've had in the show, and if they use it, it will rock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is a good point , why are both Jaqen and Syrio in KL at the same tine?

No, I do not take it that Jaqen and Syrio are one in the same.

Both are from Braavos.

I guess I though that Syrio was the X-sword of Braavos, but what the hell that means I don't know.

Braavo, Brasvos, what the hell does it mean.

You got something mixed up. Jaqen H'ghar never claimed to be from Braavos.

"This man has the honor to be Jaqen H'ghar, once of the Free City of Lorath. Would that he were home." The introduction in the show is similar.

As we learn in "Mercy", the author of "Wroth of the Dragonlords" and "The Bloody Hand" is a certain Phario Forel; we don't know wether that's a relative of Syrio (or even himself, considering a certain infiltration of Braavosi theater scene by the FM).

Besides several Keyholders and members of big families, Mercy sees the Third Sword occupying a box on the second level of The Gate, hosting a half-dozen friends.

Careful with the spelling of Braavos. Even the show mixes it up. "Waterdancing" is not the "Braavos - dance", but the "bravo's dance", as you can read in aGoT. And Needle is, as The Ned put it, "a bravo's blade" (meaning a bandit'.s blade).

We have the same error in the German sync and subtitles; well, the last time "bravo" was used in German literature was more than a hundred years ago, by Karl May. :read:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You got something mixed up. Jaqen H'ghar never claimed to be from Braavos.

"This man has the honor to be Jaqen H'ghar, once of the Free City of Lorath. Would that he were home." The introduction in the show is similar.

But by the end of season 2 Jaqen revels he is a Faceless Man, the books mention no other place than the House of Black and White at Braavos where one can become a Faceless Man.

In fact probably most of the FM are not from Braavos.

One guesses most FM spend most of their time on the road on assignment.

So far we have never found out just how many FM there are.

Arya is not a Braavosi and she is training as a FM.

One day Arya will say:

"This woman has the honor to be 'Arya Stark', once of Winterfell of Westeros. Would that she were home."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Slightly off topic, but why would the "First Sword of Braavos" be acting as an itinerant fencing teacher in Westeros? I always just assumed that it was just one of the usual exaggerations so common with the charming, roguish character type, but most people seem to take it as fact. Is there some back story on Syrio that I missed somewhere?

Well, he tells us he had the position for 9 years, so in a port city like Kings Landing, there should quite a few people be able to identify him. A well-known impostor would be even worse than a well-known smuggler, so to say. :rofl:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Slightly off topic, but why would the "First Sword of Braavos" be acting as an itinerant fencing teacher in Westeros? I always just assumed that it was just one of the usual exaggerations so common with the charming, roguish character type, but most people seem to take it as fact. Is there some back story on Syrio that I missed somewhere?

More curious , how did Ned know about him?

Maybe Ned asked around, did Forel already run a school in KL?

I guess, maybe, we will never find out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am going slightly off topic with this and i have mentioned it elsewhere without response, surely the most important part of this scene is the foreshadowing. Or am i just making up that Arya vs Hound in this scene emulates the Viper vs the mountain.

I don't think this qualify exactly as a foreshadowing but it is a parallel - I saw a few posts back dismissing your comment, but there is a resemblance: Gregor (Clegane) has armor and a big ass sword. I wonder how this will be portrayed in the show however...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think this qualify exactly as a foreshadowing but it is a parallel - I saw a few posts back dismissing your comment, but there is a resemblance: Gregor (Clegane) has armor and a big ass sword. I wonder how this will be portrayed in the show however...

So does every knight in the story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But not every knight are a Clegane facing an unarmored opponent wielding a light weapon.

A light weapon? It seemed rather effective to me. It killed him. Probably the worst death in the story. Quite fitting, too.

Sandor is not Gregor. It's nasty to even consider that's a parallel. Gregor nearly destroyed Sandor's life. He's a victim, too.

The parallel they were going for was Syrio/Meryn. Arya was role playing Syrio. Sandor was role playing Meryn.

I didn't care for the scene, but that's what was clearly called out.

He was trying to explain to Arya that fighting that way is ineffective. And it looks like in the next episode, he gives her some lessons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A light weapon? It seemed rather effective to me. It killed him. Probably the worst death in the story. Quite fitting, too.

Sandor is not Gregor. It's nasty to even consider that's a parallel. Gregor nearly destroyed Sandor's life. He's a victim, too.

The parallel they were going for was Syrio/Meryn. Arya was role playing Syrio. Sandor was role playing Meryn.

I didn't care for the scene, but that's what was clearly called out.

He was trying to explain to Arya that fighting that way is ineffective. And it looks like in the next episode, he gives her some lessons.

I never said that it didn't parallel Syrio/Meryn - it quite literally did, since it was even mentioned in the dialogue... But a parallel can be threefold. :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...