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[Book/Show Spoilers] Anyone else surprised at Sandor/Arya scene?


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I think the slap served its purpose when the Hound was shown walking away and Arya lying on the ground presumably shocked by everything that happened. I'd like to think it was a little return to reality for her.


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The slap was definitely needed. I mean, really, the Hound is out of character for doing that? She just tried to stab him!

Yeah, they need to milk these two for as long as they can, very enjoyable, just like Arya and Tywin.

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I think the slap served its purpose when the Hound was shown walking away and Arya lying on the ground presumably shocked by everything that happened. I'd like to think it was a little return to reality for her.

:agree: After what she did to the guy after the Red Wedding and later was part of at the inn a few episodes earlier, Arya needs a reality check. Not every tough guy is going to be as accommodating as Polliver. As far as I'm concerned, Arya became fair game for a smack down when she tried to stab him with the pointy end.

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And as far as trolling goes, am I the only one who thought the show was trolling us about Syrio's death/non-death? I only watched the episode once but at first the Hound almost seem to hint that Syrio couldn't be dead if he was such a good swordsman. Only then comes the lesson about armor and weapons. I thought that piece of conversation was really great. (Btw, I think Syrio's dead, but nice trolling nonetheless).

That was my first thought. The conversation states off with him implying "hey, why would Syrio be dead because Trant is terrible" but then he was like "unarmed and outnumbered? Guess even Trant could kill him then". I think it them just screwing with us. There is no way Syrio won that battle. He either died or was captured. I think they just killed him and Martin didn't show it because he didn't think he needed to. They were killing all of Stark's men.

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There are so many things for Arya in Braavos. Wish she would get there sooner than later. There's nothing going on in these scenes.

There's loads going on in these scenes. It's called characterization. The building up and evolution of the two characters. Arya the character progressed a lot in this episode. We see how her training has progressed and how she has no forgiveness for the Hound or the Brothers without Banners. That's a huge leap forward in terms of the show turning Arya into a remorseless killer.

I suppose they could have shortened the scenes to a 30 second 80's style training montage. but I don't think it would have had the same impact :laugh:

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I personally loved the scenes between the Hound and Arya in this episode. It was a nice reminder for viewers that this is NOT a buddy comedy, and there is no love between these two. Arya was/is clearly willing to stick him with the pointy end at the first opportunity she gets, and the Hound is not here as a mentor; he is her captor and is literally knocking her back into reality before she gets herself killed. If she dies, he doesnt get paid, and we have already seen her independently attack armed (and armoured) men, so he definitely has an interest in protecting her. As to the complaint about him hitting her, I dont see how this is out of character for either book or tv Hound. He has regularly shown brutality to other characters (including children), and this is not the first time he has smacked Arya in the dome to "save" her (Red Wedding- with an axe nonetheless- and here to remind her what might happen against a real opponent). The chemistry that these two have on screen I think makes it easy to forget that they are not friends, so this scene was great to remind us where they stand. A few other thoughts:


  • The Syrio mention, in my opinion, was not meant to "troll" or lead us to believe that he is still alive. Again, it was a reality check for Arya. I think it will help add to her motivation that she needs to leave and go to Braavos to be trained. It makes it easier for non-book readers to understand why she needs to leave. Also, Syrio is dead, people. Sad, but true. I think to have him come back later as a faceless man or something similar would just piss me off. Everyone that is "dead" cannot keep coming back like some crazy affirmation of the Iron Borns' "what is dead may never die" incantation.
  • I was very impressed to see Maisie Williams "water dancing." She is such a talented young actress, and Im sure it takes quite a bit of training to even learn how to gracefully and adeptly handle the sword. Im sure her dancing background helped a lot!
  • Really enjoyed Arya's discussion with the Hound about having to say the names and then still tacking on his own at the end. His reaction was great too!
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No, I wasn't surprised by this scene, even with that trolling teaser they put in last week's preview. Having the scene cut off abruptly when she stabbed needle at his gut was just a hilarious trick and I knew she wasn't going to stab him for real. Sure they've had characters do things in the show that were never in the book but I was almost 100% sure this wouldn't be one of them. Arya and the Hound are too important and too good for the television show's popularity so yes as someone else said, I think they're going to milk it for all they can before they part ways and Arya heads for Braavos.



As I said in the other thread about this topic - I think the scene was very useful to show Arya getting another harsh "lesson" about fighting. She's not going to be able to 'water dance' her way through her hit list. How does she hope to achieve being a killer if she's so small and has only a small sword that can't pierce armor? She's going to have to learn another way. It's a lead in for her assassination career. She'll remember this. She's very smart and she wants to find ways to use her size and quickness to her advantage. She's obviously rogue material, not warrior. This it to show the audience why she has motivation to learn from the Faceless Men.

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I agree with you Coppersam, this scene is definitely meant primarily as a reality-check. It also helps to remind us once again of Braavos. But all that doesn't exclude a side of trolling, which might very well have been unintentional. The effect is that same to me: it was fun. Plus it's nice to remind us of Syrio, who was a very enjoyable character, so this scene is a winner on all counts.


(ps: I agree that Syrio's most certainly dead but the only thing I know for sure, is that I don't know a thing. I keep an open mind about anything, just in case).




The Syrio mention, in my opinion, was not meant to "troll" or lead us to believe that he is still alive. Again, it was a reality check for Arya. I think it will help add to her motivation that she needs to leave and go to Braavos to be trained. It makes it easier for non-book readers to understand why she needs to leave. Also, Syrio is dead, people. Sad, but true. I think to have him come back later as a faceless man or something similar would just piss me off. Everyone that is "dead" cannot keep coming back like some crazy affirmation of the Iron Borns' "what is dead may never die" incantation.
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That was my first thought. The conversation states off with him implying "hey, why would Syrio be dead because Trant is terrible" but then he was like "unarmed and outnumbered? Guess even Trant could kill him then". I think it them just screwing with us. There is no way Syrio won that battle. He either died or was captured. I think they just killed him and Martin didn't show it because he didn't think he needed to. They were killing all of Stark's men.

Exactly! It's nice to keep us scratching our heads a little though :)

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I think the slap was "needed" to distance the pair from the other travelling couple, Brienne and Podrick, who are actually becoming friendly. They couldn't show them getting along, otherwise viewers could think they are becoming buddies as well. So yeah, it might be slighly OOC, but I get it, and it fits as a reality check in Arya's personal growth before Braavos.


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I think that the Hound's assessment that having armor and a sword is superior and that Syrio must be dead isn't necessarily true and shows that he has certain assumptions about what it means to be a good fighter. The Hound assumes that a big sword and armor will always beat "water dancing" but being smarter and more agile than your opponent (playing the mental game) can also be effective. Faceless Men rely on stealth and smarts, which I think is far more dangerous than a large sword as was shown by Jaqen at Harrenhall.


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You're right, though large swords and armor are not to be underestimated, and I think this reads also as Arya getting tutoring on different kinds of fighting (Syrio/Jaqen/The Hound/the Faceless Men). She's getting a very wide range and a wide view of the world.


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I think that the Hound's assessment that having armor and a sword is superior and that Syrio must be dead isn't necessarily true and shows that he has certain assumptions about what it means to be a good fighter. The Hound assumes that a big sword and armor will always beat "water dancing" but being smarter and more agile than your opponent (playing the mental game) can also be effective. Faceless Men rely on stealth and smarts, which I think is far more dangerous than a large sword as was shown by Jaqen at Harrenhall.

Being agile doesn't equal being smart. Being an assassin is nothing like being a waterdancer.

The point of that discussion, to me at least, was that confronting a big man in big armor with a big sword, while you yourself are small, lightly armored, and armed with either have no sword or a small blade; is a losing proposition. Meaning Arya isn't going to be able to kill the people on her list by being a warrior.

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:agree:

But i must admit, the show!hound lines are so great i can put up with the character changes

I agree as well, on the other hand she did include him her hit list and she let him know it, which probably hurt his feelings. Then the next morning she did try to kill him, if she could have she would have, at least for those couple of seconds, and that probably hurt his feelings too.

I guess he lost his temper in the heat of the moment, he did give her the sword back instead of breaking it over his knee, which it looked he thought about for a second or two, so giving it back was an apology of sorts or as close as she will get to one from him.

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I agree as well, on the other hand she did include him her hit list and she let him know it, which probably hurt his feelings. Then the next morning she did try to kill him, if she could have she would have, at least for those couple of seconds, and that probably hurt his feelings too.

I guess he lost his temper in the heat of the moment, he did give her the sword back instead of breaking it over his knee, which it looked he thought about for a second or two, so giving it back was an apology of sorts or as close as she will get to one from him.

I highly doubt Arya listing The Hound on her kill list as well as trying to poke him with Needle 'hurt Sandor's feelings' much. He thinks she's an annoying little twat for the most part and a pain in his ass that he's only keeping around because he wants hostage gold for her skinny butt. They do NOT have a very amiable relationship in the books or on the show either one and I was personally glad to see the audience reminded of that when he slapped her hard enough to make her mouth bleed. I love Arya to death, don't get me wrong - she's probably one of my top three favorite stories / characters of all time in the books but she's got a long ways to go in learning her role and this scene played that up perfectly. The Hound is reminding her just how far she's got to go before she ever hopes to kill a man in a fight. It reinforces her need to learn sneakier / assassin ways and gets us excited for her Braavos journey.

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The slap was definitely needed. I mean, really, the Hound is out of character for doing that? She just tried to stab him!

Yes, I agree. It's brutal, but then again, she did just stab him - and that was no play stab, he is on her list - and I think if it was anyone else but Arya Stark that person would be dead shortly after hitting the ground.

I think one thing about their relationship is: the Hound sees himself when he sees her - seething, cynical and hate-filled. She may be highborn but is no respecter of social rank, and neither is he. One part of this similarity is that when Arya judges him, she judges him the way he'd judge himself. Would he forgive someone like himself for Mycah? Deep down, no.

I think this is why the Hound feels some unspoken obligation to keep her around, and even teach her a bit of the real-world. If it was for truly mercenary reasons (like the way Bronn is), he'd have bound her up and delivered her to some Freys for a quick reward.

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