Stormland's Fury Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well just prior to the bath scene perhaps a quick Roose/Ramsay scene. Roose says "Get on with the Moat Caillin job" I imagined him saying that while wearing a track suit and a gold chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misnthropia Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Yeah sure, I just can't see it up to now. The difference is Sandor didn't give a shit, he said "fuck the king" in front of the guard and left. That doesn't mean he's a coward, but that he looks after his own hide. I never said he's an honest or a good man, just that he is walking on a very solid ground, right or wrong, and can't be manipulated by Ramsay. I think he's "above him" in a way. A 10 year old wouldn't be able to manipulate you for instance. But WHY did he storm off during the Blackwater? He was afraid of the flames. He cracked. Overall, this was clearly something that shouldn't have been left on a cliffhanger for half a year. I agree. We saw Asha starting her Dreadfort plan what? later half of last season? To have to culminate in a 2 minute botched scene a year later is an insult really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I agree. We saw Asha starting her Dreadfort plan what? later half of last season? To have to culminate in a 2 minute botched scene a year later is an insult really. In the very last episode, near the end. And that was all the resolution we got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Abominable SnowOther Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 That Yara chick ain't got shit on Asha.Asha would have thrown her fucking axe at Ramsay's face for giving her his back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaspiro Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well, after all this speculation, I have to say that was incredibly disappointing. I understand that without a willingness by the writers to deviate from the books, the scene becoming filler was essentially inevitable. As I said in my original post, if Ramsay, Asha/Yara and Theon must survive the encounter there are few possible outcomes, and even fewer if the writers are not willing to allow Theon to escape or Asha to be captured. That said, I was surprised in that I was genuinely expecting a book deviation, (my original guess was that Theon was freed and remained free just long enough to go to Moat Cailin and treat with the ironborn in earnest before he and Asha were captured by Stannis, effectively rejoining their storylines with those of their book counterparts). If they weren't planning anything to come of it, why initiate the storyline in the finale of season 3 at all? Why build all that hype to come to an abrupt halt a year afterwards? I'll admit that the scene did a fair job showing the final result of Theon's psychological conditioning, but that could have easily been accomplished in other scenes and the end of such a built-up storyline deserved more. As it is the entire thing (save Theon's scene) just comes off as time-killing filler. And even after accepting that the scene was filler, it still seemed lazier and more contradictory to Asha/Yara's character than it had to be. If they had to provide a resolution, could it not at least have made sense? Ramsay came without a shirt, and took many long moments delivering speeches wherein he was vulnerable. Yet Yara did absolutely nothing. Asha of the books, if she truly wanted to free her brother as Yara did, would have avenged him even if he was not willing to escape. The whole thing felt cheap and useless. I enjoyed the scenes that came afterwards, and the acting during the scene, but the entire scenario was hilariously bad. After this, I'm not sure I'll be using 'Asha/Yara' to denote Theon's sister again. They've begun to seem like different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wunhopkuendo Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I agree. We saw Asha starting her Dreadfort plan what? later half of last season? To have to culminate in a 2 minute botched scene a year later is an insult really. Ever heard of Operation Eagle Claw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknownothingjonsnow Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Ever heard of Operation Eagle Claw? Can you come up with a more idiotic comparison? Unanticipated mechanical failure and human error which caused multiple fatalities and compromised the mission before the area of operation was even reached, versus encountering entirely predictable enemy resistance. If special forces had reached the location of the hostages and then run away because "Oh my God, the kidnappers have guns!" then you might have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 When I rewatched the episode, the blood on Ramsay looked more like it was "on" him, not his own blood, even though it's diagonal, like possibly scratches? Or else someone did a really bad job w/the make up because it didn't look deep enough to be even shallow sword wounds. And how in the hell would he get a bunch of super shallow cuts anyway from people with axes, swords and shields? What the hell was that all about , I thought at first those were 'love scratches' , and maybe have been, we missing a scene they took out, like last week! The CONTROVERSY and all you know? Downright weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I thought it was the best next to Stannis/Davos & certain parts of the trial. Allow me to explain. Those people freaking out about the Iron Born not putting up more of a fight, you do to realize they were in the bowels of the Dreadfort do you not? One of the strongest and certainly the most feared northern keeps second only to Winterfell? Rivaled only by Karhold (Now first considering Winterfells status) 50 of the best Iron born killers or not they would have been slaughtered and/or captured/flayed given another minute. Even Ramsay and his few men dominated the heavily armed Iron born in that clash and if you noticed only Yara did any real killing before she realized she was completely screwed. She does however have "big balls" to suggest that Ramsay surrender when she herself is defeated. Not the way I saw it. Yara/Asha had , seemingly only 5 Ironborn brawlers with her, she loses two, looked like to me that Ramsay lost all his men. I counted three guys that Yara killed. I also got the impression that Yara and her guys were not a-skered of the dogs, she just left in disgust. Why did the Ironborn lose any fighters at all? And where were all those 45 other mean-as-hell Ironborn warriors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of man and wolf Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Yeah, where was that big scary looking dude from ep 10 last season who watched as Yara walked past him on the boat. Ramsay probably would have flayed him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I also got the impression that Yara and her guys were not a-skered of the dogs, she just left in disgust. Is that better or worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gran de Lys Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Okay, so, after wading through every post on this thread, here's my thought. This scene was not about Asha/Yara. We keep circling around it--it's a test for Theon! No, the test was the shaving scene! But he was half-lying/sparing his skin in the shaving scene! And we never get to the denouement, where Ramsay entrusts his Reek to go forth and be Theon. The whole Asha invades the Dreadfort thing was the real test--Reek proving that he's Reek in his heart and soul, so that Ramsay can finally trust him to be Theon again. If he won't admit who he is and allow himself to be rescued and get safe--to his own sister--then he has truly been broken. That's what Ramsay needed to hear in order to send him to Moat Cailin as the cringing slave impersonating Theon Greyjoy, thus bringing the boy back to himself. What Ramsay's endgame is in letting Reek be Theon again, I'm not clear on, but I believe this scene was all to get to that moment. Continue hatin' on the scene. I have a half-pint of Ben & Jerry's waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wunhopkuendo Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Can you come up with a more idiotic comparison? Unanticipated mechanical failure and human error which caused multiple fatalities and compromised the mission before the area of operation was even reached, versus encountering entirely predictable enemy resistance. If special forces had reached the location of the hostages and then run away because "Oh my God, the kidnappers have guns!" then you might have a point. As someone who actually served in the real special forces, I do think I have an idea of what I am talking about. The whole point of the comparison is that you can spend a month in preparation and have every possible variable planned out, and then still have something come up that scraps the whole mission. I have seen it happen in real life far more times than I can or will recall to you. The Yara plan most likely hinged on a quick assault of the dungeons with a rescue of an imprisoned Theon willing to escape with her. The wrench thrown in to the mix was that Theon was actually in the kennels and so brainwashed as to believe it was all a trick brought on by Ramsey. So the mission probably took longer than anticipated due to having to relocate Theon and then was pushed to failure status when he wouldn't come and the bells gave away the element of surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'll pay the iron price Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Yeah, where was that big scary looking dude from ep 10 last season who watched as Yara walked past him on the boat. Ramsay probably would have flayed him too. Yes - I was looking forward to him charging at the Bolton men like Wolverine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingpin Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 But WHY did he storm off during the Blackwater? He was afraid of the flames. He cracked. It never crossed my mind. I think he just thought they'd lose and/or was sick of serving them and just left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It was the flames that made him crack. The final straw, and he then rationalised it against the bile that had been building up.If wildfire hadn't been used he may have hung around and probably stabbed a member of the Kingsguard, Bronn or Joffrey. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not sure if this has been covered, but how the hell did the Ironborn get to the Dreadfort by boat? The Iron Islands are off the west coast, whereas the Dreadfort is on the east, accessible by a river that connects to the east coast. They sure as hell didn't sail round the north or south of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not sure if this has been covered, but how the hell did the Ironborn get to the Dreadfort by boat? The Iron Islands are off the west coast, whereas the Dreadfort is on the east, accessible by a river that connects to the east coast. They sure as hell didn't sail round the north or south of Westeros. Oh yes they did. Yara even said verbatim that this is the plan last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyJoe Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Not sure if this has been covered, but how the hell did the Ironborn get to the Dreadfort by boat? The Iron Islands are off the west coast, whereas the Dreadfort is on the east, accessible by a river that connects to the east coast. They sure as hell didn't sail round the north or south of Westeros. http://i.imgur.com/QCW0tSK.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/QCW0tSK.jpg How long would that realistically take? Several months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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