Tyrion as political advisor to Daenerys

[James Arryn]

Where do people get that Tyrion is this great political mind? He is the most hated man in Westeros, no one respects him, and his answer to everything is throw money at it.

Most of that hate pre-existed any political power, though. Kinda hard starting position. He's very gifted at reading people, at realpolitik, etc.

He has huge weak spots, though. Women, booze...he gets lazy, and prone to self-pity.

[Asha's Suckling Babe]

Where do people get that Tyrion is this great political mind? He is the most hated man in Westeros, no one respects him, and his answer to everything is throw money at it.

Like I said earlier in this thread, from Tyrion's own POV chapters where he keeps praising himself and throws a party whenever he outsmarts Cersei (which is not really a great accomplishmet). I'm not saying he is utterly stupid, but he had serious weaknesses, such as social skills, PR, and prioritizing.

ETA: just to clarify I do think he is intelligent, it's just annoying when some claim all his decisions were good ones with no other proof than Tyrion's own opinion. He made some bad choices.

From Varys. He tells Tyrion he plays the game rather well. Gotta take something to get respect from a pro like that.

I assume this was when he was sucking Tyrion's ass so he could get his dirty work done through Tyrion? (antler men, captain of goldcloaks etc...)

[Wmarshal]

From Varys. He tells Tyrion he plays the game rather well. Gotta take something to get respect from a pro like that.

Varys, who continually played thru out Clash and Storms? Yeah Varys was so honest.

[Wmarshal]

Most of that hate pre-existed any political power, though. Kinda hard starting position. He's very gifted at reading people, at realpolitik, etc.

He has huge weak spots, though. Women, booze...he gets lazy, and prone to self-pity.

Tyrion was played the whole time Storms by Bronn, Shae, and Varys.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Many people are rather pessemistic for what regards Daeneys her future rule and prospects towards Westeros.

Maybe some are not taking into account a possible "Tyrion effect". Tyrion kinda ambitions to become a political advisor to Daenerys, he's not there yet but we can see that possible happen i guess.

So how much of a change can Tyrion bring to her rule and prospects, in the perspective of the community? Will she take him as advisor and heed his advice, and if so what will that advice be?

I think he has a lot of info for her regarding Westeros. As far as Merreen goes, tyrion really does not know that much, certainly not more than Dany or Barristan who have been there much longer than him. But yes Tyrion can fill her in on the rest of the world and will probably make her eventual transition to Westeros much easier. He can give her the down low on Illyrio, Varys, fAegon, Jon Con, Cersei and Margarey, Tommen, Mycella, all of Dorne, and he can fill her in on all the details of TWO5K. He has a lot of information she needs and I am sure he will help her. Quaithe did warn her about a lion, and the app confirms she meant Tyrion ( I was holding out that it was Gerion Lannister she was talking about but it appears not). But of course prophecies and predictions do not always work out exactly like we think so I am still skeptical about that. But also if Gerion Lannister is in fact the Corsair king and they meet with Dany's fleet on open waters then Tyrion will also be helpful in that regard as Gerion is his favorite Uncle.....and.....now that I think about it...Gerion would be the heir to Casterly Rock at this point. So yes, all in all Tyrion has great potential to guide and help Dany in many ways. (of course that all sounds to easy for GRRM)

[James Arryn]

Tyrion was played the whole time Storms by Bronn, Shae, and Varys.

Bronn, no. Both were pretty open-eyed, I think.

Shae...sort of, that's the weak spot I meant.

Varys, sure. But he plays everyone. And it was mostly mutual interest aside from end-game, anyways.

Tyrion's biggest weakness is that he goes through periods of self-pity where he just drinks and fucks and thinks of ways he hates his father, etc. and only being a Lannister with Lannister money gets him through those bouts alive. But other than that, he's pretty sharp.

[Fire Eater]

And Tyrion's arrest of Pycelle, but leaving LF and Varys free is smart how? Sending Myrcella to Dorne results in an honest alliance, not in Dorne starting with a hostage? His revenge fantasy against Lysa influencing his advice in council is good politics?

Come on. Tyrion thinking that he is a good politician does not actually make him a good politician.

Tyrion didn't know that Dorne was plotting, and from where he was with what info he had it seemed like a good idea.

It was Tyrion who sent LF to negotiate a marriage between Joffrey and Margaery, decision that saved them at the BoBW. Tyrion showed improved political skills in ADwD when he manipulates Aegon.

I don't see it happening.

Then what is the point of Tyrion going to Meereen to meet Dany?

Where do people get that Tyrion is this great political mind? He is the most hated man in Westeros, no one respects him, and his answer to everything is throw money at it.

No, Walder Frey is the most hated man in Westeros. His answer to everything is throw money at it? That is a mischaracterization, I think. Did he throw money at the Tyrells when he sent a marriage offer for Margaery and Joffrey that resulted in where the Lannisters being where they are now? Besides, he has learned to be a good politician without the gold of CR in ADwD.

[Wmarshal]

You mean he sent Baelish who thru his skills brought them in? As Walder Frey, Tyrion is accused to kill king in his home during his wedding, killed Tywin, got Oberyn killed, forced Sansa to marry him, lied to Cat, and made every moment he had with a crown man a chance to piss on them.

Um, that whole time he bribes people with money he does not have.

[Caerl Targaryen]

Regardless of whether Tyrion is or isn't a good politician (I think there are some good arguments for both sides of that coin), I do think Tyrion has important knowledge and a frankness to him that would be beneficial to Dany. It may not be a good long-term arrangement but I can see it having good short-term benefits for both of them.

[Fire Eater]

You mean he sent Baelish who thru his skills brought them in?

It was Tyrion's idea still.

As Walder Frey, Tyrion is accused to kill king in his home during his wedding, killed Tywin, got Oberyn killed, forced Sansa to marry him, lied to Cat, and made every moment he had with a crown man a chance to piss on them.

Except Walder Frey murdered a king as well along with members of many noble houses.Saying Tyrion got Oberyn killed is an unfair misrepresentation. Tyrion didn't ask Oberyn to be his champion, but Oberyn proposed to be his champion, it was entirely his idea. It was the Mountain who killed Oberyn not Tyrion. Sansa's marriage was more Tywin's decision than Tyrion's, and I don't think many lords would hold that against him. Again, it is an exaggeration to say he pissed on every lord in the Crownlands who met him, as you are excluding Lady Tanda and the lords who bent the knee after the BoBW, the only people are Rosby and Throne, with Thorne a member of the NW with little to no political power.

[Sun]

Then what is the point of Tyrion going to Meereen to meet Dany?

He'll influence Dany's campaign, but not directly, not as a close adviser. I don't see Dany trusting Tyrion. I don't see them having an amicable relationship - apart from being a Lannister, Dany doesn't like ugly men, and Tyrion doesn't get along with women, not unless he's paying them. I see him influencing the people in her sphere rather than her directly.

[Caerl Targaryen]

Dany doesn't like "ugly men?" What does that have to do with anything? Ser Jorah isn't described as being particularly good looking. In fact, Dany doesn't consider him to be particularly handsome at all. Yet she still considers him to be her most trusted advisor for most of the first 3 books. She wasn't impressed by Quentyn's looks either but she turned down his marriage proposal because she had already agreed to marry Hizdahr. Despite that, she still treated him with respect (she even gave him some of the best apartments in the Great Pyramid) and actually scolded people for mocking him at court.

No, I don't think Dany's biggest problems with Tyrion if she meets him will be his looks. It'll be his house and his history working for her enemies. But she isn't stupid. She would likely hear him out and recognize his value. At the very least she would consider his value based on what he has to say, not by how he looks.

[Fire Eater]

He'll influence Dany's campaign, but not directly, not as a close adviser. I don't see Dany trusting Tyrion. I don't see them having an amicable relationship - apart from being a Lannister, Dany doesn't like ugly men, and Tyrion doesn't get along with women, not unless he's paying them. I see him influencing the people in her sphere rather than her directly.

Actually, I think she will be initially wary of Tyrion, but he will manage to earn her trust and respect over time with the successes. He will influence her campaign or what was the point of him honing his political and military skills in ADwD, and his potential building up? Dany needs someone with Tyrion's expertise.

Tyrion gets along with Penny, and he isn't paying her and it was the same with Lemore. As for Dany not liking ugly men, Jaime doesn't like ugly women, he was the most shallow guy we knew, but he is falling for Brienne. Dany let Skahaz, who she thinks is ugly, be one of her top advisers, and she is not as shallow as you make her out to be.

[Caerl Targaryen]

Actually, I think she will be initially wary of Tyrion, but he will manage to earn her trust and respect over time with the successes. He will influence her campaign or what was the point of him honing his political and military skills in ADwD, and his potential building up? Dany needs someone with Tyrion's expertise.

Tyrion gets along with Penny, and he isn't paying her and it was the same with Lemore. As for Dany not liking ugly men, Jaime doesn't like ugly women, he was the most shallow guy we knew, but he is falling for Brienne. Dany let Skahaz, who she thinks is ugly, be one of her top advisers, and she is not as shallow as you make her out to be.

This.

[Sun]

Actually, I think she will be initially wary of Tyrion, but he will manage to earn her trust and respect over time with the successes. He will influence her campaign or what was the point of him honing his political and military skills in ADwD, and his potential building up? Dany needs someone with Tyrion's expertise.

Tyrion gets along with Penny, and he isn't paying her and it was the same with Lemore. As for Dany not liking ugly men, Jaime doesn't like ugly women, he was the most shallow guy we knew, but he is falling for Brienne. Dany let Skahaz, who she thinks is ugly, be one of her top advisers, and she is not as shallow as you make her out to be.

Tyrion doesn't get along with Penny, she gets along with him, there's a difference. As for Lemore, there no meaningful interaction between them. I won't even address your Jaime comparison, because it simply doesn't apply, vastly different set of characters in vastly different situations with absolutely nothing in common.

Tyrion will use Dany to get to wherever it is he plans to go and do. He won't grant her loyalty, he's no Jorah, nor is her a Barristan. He'll influence her campaign, by influencing her advisers.

[cade]

Dany doesn't like "ugly men?" What does that have to do with anything? Ser Jorah isn't described as being particularly good looking. In fact, Dany doesn't consider him to be particularly handsome at all. Yet she still considers him to be her most trusted advisor for most of the first 3 books. She wasn't impressed by Quentyn's either looks but she turned down his marriage proposal because she had already agreed to marry Hizdahr. Despite that, she still treated him with respect (she even gave him some of the best apartments in the Great Pyramid) and actually scolded people for mocking him at court.

And she was very open to letting him be one of the other two dragon riders. That Dany "doesn't like ugly men" is yet another baseless charge.

[James Arryn]

Actually, I think she will be initially wary of Tyrion, but he will manage to earn her trust and respect over time with the successes. He will influence her campaign or what was the point of him honing his political and military skills in ADwD, and his potential building up? Dany needs someone with Tyrion's expertise.

Tyrion gets along with Penny, and he isn't paying her and it was the same with Lemore. As for Dany not liking ugly men, Jaime doesn't like ugly women, he was the most shallow guy we knew, but he is falling for Brienne. Dany let Skahaz, who she thinks is ugly, be one of her top advisers, and she is not as shallow as you make her out to be.

I'm not sure how shallow Jaime was. I think he just saw no one but Cersei. If he'd run into Danny or Arianne or w/e when things with he and Cersei were still 'functional', he would not have noticed. He only starts to notice other women as Cersei starts to become less idealized in his mind, and even then it barely registers.

It's not better or healthier or w/e, but I see Jaime as much more fixated/obsessive than superficial. I think if Cersei lost a hand or w/ but didn't reveal her emotional ugliness, his feelings for her don't change.

[Fire Eater]

Tyrion doesn't get along with Penny, she gets along with him, there's a difference. As for Lemore, there no meaningful interaction between them. I won't even address your Jaime comparison, because it simply doesn't apply, vastly different set of characters in vastly different situations with absolutely nothing in common.

Actually Tyrion and Penny do, as we don't see them arguing since after the Oppo dispute was resolved. Lemore does have meaningful interaction with Tyrion throughout the trip, and they sew Tyrion's clothes together.

Tyrion will use Dany to get to wherever it is he plans to go and do. He won't grant her loyalty, he's no Jorah, nor is her a Barristan. He'll influence her campaign, by influencing her advisers.

Tyrion will be her adviser as most of her advisers: Jorah, Barristan, and Skahaz along with possibly Reznak, will die in Meereen. Tyrion will be loyal to Dany as he has nowhere else to go, and he will be riding on her dragons. I think he will finally find a monarch he would be truly loyal to with the exception of helping Jaime escape when he is captured.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I will just say this: If Tyrion were half as brilliant politically as he and so many people seem to think, he'd never have been played and manipulated the way he was by both Varys and Littlefinger. Hell, Littlefinger has tried to kill/frame him three times and Tyrion is still oblivious to what he's done.

I think his biggest asset to Dany is simply that he can tell her the truth about things in Westeros that Jorah and Barristan have thus been unable or unwilling to. It's important to consider though that he sees her as means to an end, namely, getting his birthright and getting revenge on Cersei. His advice to her will probably be tailored to that ambition, not necessarily on what would be good for Westeros or for Dany.

I too am curious what he tells her about Aegon. Whether he plays along like he's real, expresses skepticism, or hasn't actually figured it out yet.

Quite the thread here. Tyrion hater and Dany haters can combine their useless vitriol for a twice as useless haters discussion!

I wasn't aware that opinions of characters had to be positive in order to be useful.

[Lady of the Falls]

In whatever way he helps Dany IMO would be to her benefit, I think he's a smart player in GOT. She'll need him to navigate thru the mess of ppl/players left in Westeros.