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R+L=J v 81


Stubby

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I personally believe that Lyanna is Jon's mom because of Ned's behavior toward Jon but I am not sure if Rhegar is necessarily the father.



I do not think Lyanna would just run away from everyone and go galavanting off with Rhegar. It seems a bit out of character. She is a wild woman who refused to be swept off her feet by Robert.



She hated Robert because Robert fathered bastards and she believed that he would be unfaithful when they were married. She was against unfaithfulness in her future mariage.



So why would she run off with a married man? She hated Robert because he was going to cheat so why would she be Rhegar's mistress?



That part does not add up.



Could Lyanna have run away because Robert had abused her?



Robert whispered Lyanna in Ceseri's ear on their wedding night. Was it wishful thinking or maybe had he taken her to bed before?



If Robert did abuse Lyanna, she could have run away because she was angry



Rhegar could have taken her in to comfort her or keep her safe. Meanwhile, Arys burns Lord Rickon and strangles Brandon.



Robert's rebellion started and Lyanna becomes an evan more valuable hostage after it is realized that Robert got her pregnant. So after she gives birth, they will have Robert's fiance and his bastard as hostages.



Why would Ned hide Jon's identity?



a. Maybe Lyanna asked him to. "Promise me Ned"


b. Maybe he did not think Robert would be a good father (Mya Stone anyone)


c. Robert needed to marry and produce a indisputably legitimate heir so Jon would be bad for that


d. It would cause political drama


e. Robert's hand would become a prize for one of the loyal houses


f. wanted to raise Lyanna's kid cuz he thought he failed Lyanna.



If Jon's identity was revealed, Robert would have legitimized him and probably lost some support.




If his identity was revealed now and he was legitimized by Robb....


He could be heir to


A. the north through Lyanna or Robb


B. The Stormlands through Robert


C. Dragon Stone through Stannis (if he dies)


E. The Iron throne. (after Tommen)



He could go from the LC of the night watch to one of the most important ppl in Westeros.



His Nights watch vows are keeping him from it. but if he dies then comes back to life....



"and thus his watch has ended"


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It doesn't work. Lyanna hadn't seen Robert in 2 years prior to her death. Unless you want to argue that her pregnancy lasted for almost 2 years, it doesn't fit.


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I've always thought that there is some significance in Ned's words about how Robert was a maiden's fantasy. Cersei wasn't a maiden when she married and she got easily disappointed about him. Robert definitely wasn't a fantasy to Lyanna and maybe she wasn't as "pure" as Robert expected her to be, either due to Rhaegar or somebody else, before they run together.

But no, I'm sure Robert never touched her.

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It doesn't work. Lyanna hadn't seen Robert in 2 years prior to her death. Unless you want to argue that her pregnancy lasted for almost 2 years, it doesn't fit.

This. But hated is a strong word and I don't think that Lyanna hated Robert. As for Robert abusing her, that is a good joke.

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I personally believe that Lyanna is Jon's mom because of Ned's behavior toward Jon but I am not sure if Rhegar is necessarily the father.

I do not think Lyanna would just run away from everyone and go galavanting off with Rhegar. It seems a bit out of character. She is a wild woman who refused to be swept off her feet by Robert.

She hated Robert because Robert fathered bastards and she believed that he would be unfaithful when they were married. She was against unfaithfulness in her future mariage.

So why would she run off with a married man? She hated Robert because he was going to cheat so why would she be Rhegar's mistress?

There was never any talk of hate.

That part does not add up.

Could Lyanna have run away because Robert had abused her?

Robert whispered Lyanna in Ceseri's ear on their wedding night. Was it wishful thinking or maybe had he taken her to bed before?

If Robert did abuse Lyanna, she could have run away because she was angry

Rhegar could have taken her in to comfort her or keep her safe. Meanwhile, Arys burns Lord Rickon and strangles Brandon.

In the end Ned learned enough about Lyanna's reasons for leaving to say that her wolfsblood got her killed. And yet when Robert shows in at Winterfell he says Robert loved Lyanna more then he did and that he loved Robert for the way he still remembered her.

Why would Ned hide Jon's identity?

a. Maybe Lyanna asked him to. "Promise me Ned"

b. Maybe he did not think Robert would be a good father (Mya Stone anyone)

What about Mya Stone, as Ned remembers he paid attention to Mya long after he lost interest in the mother. It was Cersei who kept him from bringing her too court. It was his trueborn children he was a terrible father too and Edric and Renly he was a fair weather parent too. That stuff hadn't happened yet. At the time of the Rebellion Ned had no reason to complain about Robert's treatment of his bastards, especially given that he is a sourthern Lord who are prejudiced against bastards.

c. Robert needed to marry and produce a indisputably legitimate heir so Jon would be bad for that

d. It would cause political drama

e. Robert's hand would become a prize for one of the loyal houses

f. wanted to raise Lyanna's kid cuz he thought he failed Lyanna.

If Jon's identity was revealed, Robert would have legitimized him and probably lost some support.

Jon Arryn was pushing Robert into marrying the Lannisters and Ned heavily distrusts the Lannisters. If this was a possibility Ned would've probably gone for it given how much he dispised the alternative.

If his identity was revealed now and he was legitimized by Robb....

He could be heir to

A. the north through Lyanna or Robb

B. The Stormlands through Robert

C. Dragon Stone through Stannis (if he dies)

E. The Iron throne. (after Tommen)

He could go from the LC of the night watch to one of the most important ppl in Westeros.

His Nights watch vows are keeping him from it. but if he dies then comes back to life....

"and thus his watch has ended"

Robb can't legitimize him as a Baratheon. House Baratheon is not one of the Houses in his Kingdom nor is Dragonstone or the Stormlands a part of his Kingdom. And while the Lannisters offered to make Dragonstone the heditary seat of Stannis' house, that offer was not taken up on.

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There is no evidence of Lyanna hating Robert. You don't have to hate a guy to not want to marry him.



If Lyanna was pregnant before or at the time of her abduction/disappearance, she would have to have miscarried that child. Jon is eight or nine months older than Daenerys who was born exactly nine months after her mother left King's Landing near the end of the war. There's not enough time for her to have two full-term pregnancies.



However...if Lyanna was pregnant with a child that wasn't Robert's, Rhaegar might have wanted to help her and figured "hey, she's fertile, she'll do!" He could have planned to marry her later to get the third head of the dragon, and either allow others to think her first child was his, or just make sure the kid was taken care of and protected. Then after she lost that baby, he was there for her and they conceived a child together.


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I assume you mean this:



Unfinished extract from the upcoming book, with the Stark Family tree (uncomplete) included.



http://edelweiss-assets.abovethetreeline.com/RH/supplemental/GRRM_WOIF_SellPacket_spreads-lowres.pdf



This is not, for those who are following that forum, the extract Ran promised for Wednesday, but another one.



And as mentioned it's not a definitive one, as there's a few spelling errors in the tree.


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I assume you mean this:

Unfinished extract from the upcoming book, with the Stark Family tree (uncomplete) included.

http://edelweiss-assets.abovethetreeline.com/RH/supplemental/GRRM_WOIF_SellPacket_spreads-lowres.pdf

This is not, for those who are following that forum, the extract Ran promised for Wednesday, but another one.

And as mentioned it's not a definitive one, as there's a few spelling errors in the tree.

Team Tryion!

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It just has Jon listed as Ned's son.



Edit: If GRRM put in A World of Ice and Fire that Jon in Lyanna and Rhaegar's son I would feel cheated of reading about from the POV of someone in the book, who probably knows Jon. Also the book is "written" by Maesters from the current time period, so for all they know Ned did cheat on his wife.


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I think that more interesting is a look at the names in th earlier generations - Arya is named after a Flint grandmother, and there is a Sansa, as well, plus several names resembling Lyanna. It seems that Ar- and Ly- female names are some family tradition. And, why is there that "daughter Stark" in blue script?


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I think that more interesting is a look at the names in th earlier generations - Arya is named after a Flint grandmother, and there is a Sansa, as well, plus several names resembling Lyanna. It seems that Ar- and Ly- female names are some family tradition. And, why is there that "daughter Stark" in blue script?

Can't say why she isn't named, but that would be the daughter who married a Vale lordling.

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