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R+L=J v 81


Stubby

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Another thing to add. When Ned first learns of Jon's decision to join the NW in a Catelyn chapter in AGOT she describes his reaction as: His face looked shocked. He wants to join the Black Brothers?" "

Why would a warden of the North be shocked to learn that a bastard, someone of no apparent importance in the world, wants to join the Nights Watch? Could the Promise me, Ned." ordeal actually be about Lyanna wanting Jon to pursue the throne after the Rebellion is finished? And that she wants Ned to train him in combat, honor and other things by a Maester so when he comes of age, Ned can tell him is heritage and his duty.

Ned is so taken aback by the fact that he cannot keep that promise now because, as we all know, you can't hold lands or titles in the Night's Watch.

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What would his heritage and duty be, then? Rise up in rebellion, supported by Ned Stark, against the Baratheon/Lannister regime?



I doubt Ned wanted Jon near the IT. If he fell that Jon should take his birthright (if he knew he was legitimate, of course), then he could have talked to Jon Arryn about it to seek advice, but even then it would be tricky since Robert already sat the IT by then. He wouldn't be happy if he were to lose it to what he thinks (is in denial about) is a child of rape between his 'beloved' Lyanna and that dragonspawn Rhaegar Targaryen.



I don't know what kind of future Ned thought Jon was going to have. Ned never talked about it with Jon, and even his real sons didn't really have much of a future yet than just being at WF. From the prayer in front of the tree, perhaps Ned had an everlasting Robb/Jon friendship in mind, where he supported his Lord brother and stuck by his side always (like perhaps Brandon Snow did)?



Did Ned ever wonder if Jon wanted more than that?



He certainly didn't envision his sister's only son going to the Watch, but on the other hand, what did he expect? He himself knows what it was like to stand in the shadow of a future Lord-brother. But I guess Ned was trying to avoid thinking on it as much as possible?


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I was just speculating. Maybe Ned didn't wholly agree with Robert taking the IT by force. Sure, Ned joined the Rebellion, but that was because the king wanted his head for no apparent reason. If his sister's dying wish was to see her son on the throne, Ned would surely try to help him get it, OR, try to persuade him not to once he inevitably finds out or begins to question things. Because Jon would be on the wall, he will be away from all politics, not knowing if he went to KL saying Im a Targaryen blah blah" he would have his head chopped off. Ned could've been trying to protect him from that. But since he took the Black, Ned can't properly sit down and talk with him - which he greatly regrets while locked up in King's Landing.

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I am sure I will be breaking a bunch of rules with this first post, but this occurred to me just a while ago. Dodge this monkey wrench or catch it, as you will.



Perhaps Ashara Dayne did not commit suicide.



She was pushed.



The most important question is, "Why?"



The answer: R+L=J is the truth, Ashara found out about it, she was going to tell Robert, and Eddard just couldn't have that.



Have fun.


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I am sure I will be breaking a bunch of rules with this first post, but this occurred to me just a while ago. Dodge this monkey wrench or catch it, as you will.

Perhaps Ashara Dayne did not commit suicide.

She was pushed.

The most important question is, "Why?"

The answer: R+L=J is the truth, Ashara found out about it, she was going to tell Robert, and Eddard just couldn't have that.

Have fun.

Haha, good one :) Ned couldn't have killed her, IMO. First off he had a crush on her, and 2nd, killing women, esp pregnant women is not his style at all.

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Did Ned really have a crush on Ashara? We're told so by Edric Dayne, of course, but then his story is wildly inconsistent.

Well, there's also Meera's story of the "Shy Wolf" (Ned) at the Harrenhall tourney who needed his older brother the "wild wolf" (Brandon) to talk to Ashara on his behalf. That could possibly be interpreted as him having a crush on Ashara as well :dunno:

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Well, there's also Meera's story of the "Shy Wolf" (Ned) at the Harrenhall tourney who needed his older brother the "wild wolf" (Brandon) to talk to Ashara on his behalf. That could possibly be interpreted as him having a crush on Ashara as well :dunno:

Or more likely, it was his first opportunity to ask a girl to dance, and all of the awkwardness that goes with that. I remember it, and it was a long, long time ago.

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Or more likely, it was his first opportunity to ask a girl to dance, and all of the awkwardness that goes with that. I remember it, and it was a long, long time ago.

Yep. Which is why I only offered it as yet another instance that could be interpreted to support the idea that Ned had a crush on Ashara ;)

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Or more likely, it was his first opportunity to ask a girl to dance, and all of the awkwardness that goes with that. I remember it, and it was a long, long time ago.

True, she could have just been a pretty girl he wanted to dance with, but do you think he could have killed her?Pushed her off a cliff as the poster above suggested?

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Or more likely, it was his first opportunity to ask a girl to dance, and all of the awkwardness that goes with that. I remember it, and it was a long, long time ago.

Yes, this could be the case, as well. The phrasing of Brandon speaking on Ned's behalf as rather ambiguous - it allows both for Ned asking Brandon to act as a go-between, or Brandon taking his own initiative to get his shy brother some fun.

BTW, one has to wonder what the relationship between Brandon and Ned was like. We know how much Ned loved Lyanna, and in the crypts, Bran says that he has the statues made for both of them because he loved them so much, but I don't recall any expression of love towards Brandon in Ned's PoV (or for Rickard, for that matter). Instead, there is that bitter twist of Ned's mouth when speaking about Brandon always stealing the show and being entitled to everything, and I don't see Ned as one prone to mere jealousy.

True, she could have just been a pretty girl he wanted to dance with, but do you think he could have killed her?Pushed her off a cliff as the poster above suggested?

NO. Not Ned, ever.

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Yes, this could be the case, as well. The phrasing of Brandon speaking on Ned's behalf as rather ambiguous - it allows both for Ned asking Brandon to act as a go-between, or Brandon taking his own initiative to get his shy brother some fun.

BTW, one has to wonder what the relationship between Brandon and Ned was like. We know how much Ned loved Lyanna, and in the crypts, Bran says that he has the statues made for both of them because he loved them so much, but I don't recall any expression of love towards Brandon in Ned's PoV (or for Rickard, for that matter). Instead, there is that bitter twist of Ned's mouth when speaking about Brandon always stealing the show and being entitled to everything, and I don't see Ned as one prone to mere jealousy.

NO. Not Ned, ever.

Or, perhaps, it gave Brandon a reason to approach Ashara without raising suspicion.. He was betrothed, and perhaps he knew the news on that would be announced soon (as it indeed was), so he could hardly be seen in public flirting with a highborn lady. But if he approached her to ask her to dance with his little, shy brother, it would give him a reason to speak with her, and no one would bat an eye.

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Or, perhaps, it gave Brandon a reason to approach Ashara without raising suspicion.. He was betrothed, and perhaps he knew the news on that would be announced soon (as it indeed was), so he could hardly be seen in public flirting with a highborn lady. But if he approached her to ask her to dance with his little, shy brother, it would give him a reason to speak with her, and no one would bat an eye.

Ugh. That sounds... sly.

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