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A Compendium of Theories v.2

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Alright, so I got a half-baked one, but I still think it might be significant. And I'm not sure whether I can claim credit for it, because although I don't think I've ever seen it before I "came up with it", I can't be certain.

I think that the prophecy/curse of Mirri Maz Duur is coming to a close.

To recap: after Dany has the godswife save Khal Drogo's life only for him to end up in a coma, Daenerys asks, "When will he be as he was?", to which follows:

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

The line that has me convinced is the one about the sun. I find it sort of transparent that it refers to Quentyn Martell. He hails from Dorne in Westeros, travels east to Meereen, and promptly gets himself killed. I believe this qualifies as "rises in the west and sets in the east". Now, as for the rest, that's why I say my theory is half-baked - my ideas are as vague as they come. "The seas go dry" could refer to the Ironborn, who are getting increasingly significant, or perhaps to the arid Dothraki Sea, or to something else entirely. "The mountains blow in the wind like leaves" point me to the Mountain, who may or may not already be sort of dead, and may or may not be set up for a second death. Or it might mean some literal mountains getting destroyed, which Euron Greyjoy's supposed prepared blood magic sacrifice cataclysm shenanigans can easily cause. And the line about wombs and children confounds me utterly. It could mean the dragons, or literal children which we are yet to see. Or to something else which I hope you fellows can spot where I haven't. Or it might be the loose thread that causes this whole theory to unravel.


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@Bastard of Starfall Welcome to the forums. You'll find that this thread is not the best place to start a debate on a new theory. I'd advise you to start a new, separated thread, with your theory as subject. Good luck.

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The Ironborn have been the Children's primary antagonist. Their power resides with the sea and their Drowned God. The Children called down the comet and resulting tsunami to sever the Iron Islands from the mainland. The Ironborn then turned to raiding for a living, so the Children turned to ice magic to try and freeze their water magic out, but that didn't stop the Ironborn from practicing magic. It just froze their water magic and they created white walker soldiers.

The First Men were enlisted to help. They could round up any Ironborn humans during daylight hours and imprison them in cells until the Wall could be built - keeping them separated and unable to make the sacrifices necessary to work magic. After the Wall was built the water magic of the Ironborn was contained and warded with woven layers of ice magic.

Fast forward to Harren the Black who built Harrenhal in the Riverlands to mock the old gods. He clear cut all the weirwoods and dug up any greenseers he found. The surviving remnant of Children fled beyond the Wall into the cave where they now reside. Fire magic was summoned to deal with Harren by way of Aegon the Conqueror and Harrenhal was destroyed. The Targaryens united six of the kingdoms and made alliances with the seventh. Peace was restored for 300 years.

The Citadel and their maesters have been working on reducing the strength of the fire magic over the last 300 years. By having a maester in every great House they are fighting a war of propaganda teaching children a warped history so that they think historical threats and stories were so far in the past as to be legends and myths, gremlins and snarks. The dragons have died out, each generation reduced in size, either by confinement or poisoning or both. Once the Targaryens were weakened enough, they saw their chance and plotted a scheme where they pinned the blame for a kidnapping on the heir apparent in order to have a "just cause" to rally the Houses, take the Iron Throne, and install an Andal king.

Back to the Ironborn - Damphair has a terrible memory of Euron and a squeaky hinge - the Wall is a hinge, and hinges hold doors. Somehow the wards holding the water magic were unwoven and opened releasing the Ironborn's Drowned God into the North. Ice magic is still holding the Wall up as a barrier, but the water magic was released, albeit frozen. The wildlings are descendants of Ironborn and still have the knowledge to create white walkers. They're only pretending to flee, when really the white walkers and wights are their vanguard. Euron has sent Victarion to intercept Dany and her dragons so that they cannot be used against his frozen Drowned God when it breaks free of the Wall.

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On 2/20/2018 at 8:07 PM, animalia said:

OK this may sound crazy but could the Others be named for the philosophy of the other, and if so what does that say about their true motives?

Not crazy at all! This occurred to me as well, though not as fully as a certain YouTuber who discusses this quite explicitly in a number of his "tinfoily" videos... 

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Probably, I already wrote this theory here before, though I found more elements, that support it. Summary of the previous theory:

Aegon IV had nine mistresses:

  1. Falena Stokeworth. Supposedly her daughter, Jayne Lothston, was Aegon's bastard-daughter. Though Aegon never acknowledged her.
  2. Megette. Gave birth to four of Aegon's daughters - Alysanne, Lily, Willow and Rosey.
  3. Casella Vaith.
  4. Bellegere Otherys, first Black Pearl of Braavos. Birthed Aegon three children, two girls and a boy of questionable paternity: Bellanora (second Black Pearl of Braavos), Narha, Balerion. This three were also never officially acknowledged by Aegon.
  5. Barba Bracken, mother of Aegor Bittersteel Rivers.
  6. Melissa Blackwood, mother of Brynden Bloodraven Rivers, and his two sisters Mya and Gwenys.
  7. Bethany Bracken, younger sister of Barba Bracken.
  8. Jeyne Lothston, daughter of Aegon's first mistress, and possibly Aegon's own child.
  9. Sereney of Lys, mother of Shiera Seastar.

So my theory, is that the Bastard of Harrenhal is a bastard-son of Aegon IV Targaryen, and his eight mistress, Jeyne Lothston, who was also Aegon's daughter.


"In 192 AC, Ser Arlan unhorsed Lord Stokeworth and the Bastard of Harrenhal in a melee at King's Landing."

This Lord Stokeworth was relative of Falena Stokeworth, that was the Bastard's maternal grandmother. The Bastard was also related to Lothstons, thru marriage of his grandmother, Falena, to Lucas Lothston. Besides fake daughter, Jeyne, Lucas also had other children, such as his son - Manfryd or Manfred Lothston.

"According to Ser Eustace Osgrey, Manfred Lothston betrayed Daemon Blackfyre in the First Blackfyre Rebellion.[8] Lady Danelle Lothston, called Mad Danelle, was said to send giant bats out to capture children for her cookpots, to have bathed in blood and feasted on flesh.[9] When Lord Bloodraven marched on the wedding tourney at Whitewalls to quash the Second Blackfyre Rebellion in 211 AC, among the river lords who came in support was Lady Danelle.[10] The downfall of House Lothston came when Danelle turned to the black arts, causing chaos.[6] The last Lothston was killed with the help of an ancestor of Ser Illifer the Penniless in unknown circumstances.[2] After the line ended during the reign of King Maekar I Targaryen, the lordship of Harrenhal was given to House Whent, knights who had first served the Lothstons but then helped to defeat the mad family.[6]Ben Blackthumb worked as a boy for Lord Lothston and later for the grandfather and father of Lady Shella Whent.[11] "

I think, that the Bastard of Harrenhal was knighted during First Blackfyre Rebellion, and continued to serve as bannerman/retainer to his mother's relatives, House Lothston. He was first Whent, and grandfather of Lady Shella Whent. He framed Danelle Lothston, caused downfall of her House, and as result, became Lord of Harrenhal. Ben Blacktumb was his servant.

Son of Lord Whent became second Lord Whent (Lady Shella's father). But besides him, the ex-Bastard of Harrenhall also had other children, amongst them a son, that was born in Braavos, and became there a sellsword. Later he came to Westeros, and was hired by Lord Corbray. His son became a hedge knight, and his grandson a landed knight (was gifted the smallest of the Fingers in The Vale), and his great grandson is Littlefinger, Petyr Baelish.

Granfather of Lady Shella Whent, is Littlefinger's great great-grandfather - the Bastard of Harrenhal, secret son of Aegon IV. Thus Littlefinger and Catelyn Tully (whose mother was Minisa Whent) are third cousins. Which also means, that Littlefinger, Robb, Sansa, Bran, Arya, Rickon, Robert Arryn, Edmure Tully and his child - all of them are carriers of Targaryen blood.

  • The only piece of my theory, that was missing, is the reason, why did the Bastard of Harrenhal went to Braavos, and fathered there a son. But I finally figured out, what was that reason.

On his deathbed, Aegon IV legitimized all his bastards. But the thing is, while he was alive, he refused to acknowledge, that Jeyne Lothston, her son (the Bastard of Harrenhal), Bellanora, Narha, and Balerion (children of first Black Pearl of Braavos) were his children. Thus the paternity of those five people was unknown. So even when Aegon has legitimized his bastards, his officially KNOWN bastards, those five has remained unacknowledged.

Thus, some time after First Blackfyre Rebellion, the Bastard of Harrenhal went to Braavos, to meet his siblings, other unacknowledged bastards of Aegon IV - Bellanora, Narha, and Balerion.

And then he had a child (or children), either with Bellanora, or with Narha, and this child was that sellsword from Braavos, Littlefinger's great grandfather.

Furthermore, I think, that besides members of House Whent, Littlefinger also has other relatives (on his Otherys' side from Braavos), that are characters in ASOIAF. They are: Chataya and her daughter, Alayaya, Osmund Kettleblack and his three sons (or maybe he is actually Oswell Whent, and those three are not his sons, but his nephews, and sons of his older brother, Walter Whent), and maybe Quhuru Mo, captain of Cinnamon Wind, and his daughter Kojja Mo (this two may be descendants of Balerion Otherys).


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Is it okay if I post my observations about Gemstone Emperors, LoN and MMoL here? 

I also believe Blue Fork of the Trident might be related to Blue Heart/Nissa Nissa/Pureborn but I will not post anything new until I find out what Red Fork and Green Fork represents - ugh I think I will have to search about Reeds more. 

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Here are some of my theories: 

Lysa and Robert Arryn are suffering from lead poisoning. See here.

Lady Stoneheart is traveling to the Wall... to kill Jon. She's hunting people down who are responsible for her pain; Freys, associates of the Lannisters like Pod. Since Jon is the source of much of her strife before Robert came to Winterfell, she's coming for him too.

Pypar is a bastard of House Florent. He's got the ears.

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Re-reading, at ASOS now: 


“It is night in your Seven Kingdoms now,” the red woman went on, “but soon the sun will rise again. The war continues, Davos Seaworth, and some will soon learn that even an ember in the ashes can still ignite a great blaze. The old maester looked at Stannis and saw only a man. You see a king. You are both wrong. He is the Lord’s chosen, the warrior of fire. I have seen him leading the fight against the dark, I have seen it in the flames. The flames do not lie, else you would not be here. It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. The bleeding star has come and gone, and Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai reborn!” Her red eyes blazed like twin fires, and seemed to stare deep into his soul. “You do not believe me. You doubt the truth of R’hllor even now . . . yet have served him all the same, and will serve him again. I shall leave you here to think on all that I have told you. And because R’hllor is the source of all good, I shall leave the torch as well.”

Very specific time frame in which Dany hatches the dragons. I'm wondering why there had been all these theories about who Azor Ahai is? after GRRM literally told us who she is :P

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Quillon said:

I'm wondering why there had been all these theories about who Azor Ahai is? after GRRM literally told us who she is :P

Because, according to the prophecy, the dragon has three heads, meaning that there are three people with Targaryen blood, all three of them are descendants of Aerys II and Rhaella Targaryen, and those three people eventually will become dragonriders. Three dragons = three riders, three heads of the dragon, and all three of them together is Azor Ahai reborn.

Dany, Rhaego, and Jon. The Holy Trinity of ASOIAF - The Mother, The Son, and The Holy Ghost.

And there are so many discussions about this topic, because majority of readers think that Rhaego is dead; some think that Young Griff/fAegon is really son of Elia Martell and Rhaegar Targaryen, so eventually he will become one of dragonriders; some think that Tyrion Lannister is a hidden Targaryen, and that eventually he will also become a dragonrider; etc. So, readers either think that Dany alone is Azor Ahai, and that her dragons are Lightbringer, or they think that besides Dany there will be two more people, that will become dragonriders, same as Dany, and all three of them together, riding those three dragons, are Azor Ahai. Or something like that.

Edited by Megorova

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I'll withdraw my support for the Dragon X gene of Preston's, at least partially. I would like to now suggest that the death of one of an appropriate bloodline is also heavily involved too. Within proximity of a dragon egg. It wasn't that Rhaenyra was particularly special, it was that over the years right before her, buttloads of royal brats had been dying young and dying within reach of dragon eggs. So they did something like warging, without knowing, and thats what caused the explosion of dragons, was all the eggs loaded up with egg Targaryen souls. And when combined with the right conditions and right people, the eggs began hatching. Leaving eggs could have two purposes. Bonding that dragon to a person, and bonding that person to that egg. Perhaps its threefold.

1. A Dragonlord's soul inhabiting the dragonegg

2. A Dragonlord being exposed to and partially bonding with that deceased relative

3. The presence of a Dragonlord's mother,

    a.and father?,

    braising up the child alongside the presence of the eggs parentage?

"But wild dragons"

Not all dragons have to be of the breed of Valyrian Dragonlords and thus not all of them have to be magically bonded to humans. Requiring the sacrifice or soul of one of the appropriate bloodline to hatch dragon eggs of the domesticated line would work for population control and restraint. Rhaego and Viserys were both exposed longterm ish to the dragon eggs, so thats two counted.

"But what about Drogo?"

Sheer magical force, Blood of Kings, using Rhaego as a bridge to bring his father into it

"But how did Dany bring them back?"

The orbiting genetic engineering super weapon spaceship inhabited by a now immortal vegan decided the time was right, and a proper miracle occured with Dany nearly sacrificing herself and waking them up.


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