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A Compendium of Theories v.2

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That would have to be a huge timeline gap because the Kings moot happens in the thick of all the Dario activity

Why send your brother across the Sea ? Then race him there ? Or was he going back and fourth ?

It's easier to go back and forth via a single super fast boat (in relative terms) assisted by magic (winds)

I thought this absurd but it might start to make some sense, there is something of an easter egg with all those Ironborn dressed as Tyroshi's who attempted a sneak attack on Oldtown

Daario is nominally in the area but he is out scouting a lot and then he is supposedly a hostage so off-page

In this case Daario/Euron, he wants the Iron Fleet in Slavers Bay and in the east for power projection reasons (to smash the Slavers/Free Cities fleet for a start and adjust the calculus), under Victarion it is probably the most formidable Navy in the series and as we saw in the chapter Victarion is one of the few people with the skills to get it over so quickly

Daario does seem to have been cultivating conflict in Slavers Bay

Euron is in league with the HoU, the other side of this equation is the fact they want to destroy Oldtown, the Citadel and the Maestars with their scientific agenda

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The Origins Of The Night's King:




So there were these two brothers, right? The King In The North, and his younger brother. This is years and years after The Long Night and has nothing to do with it. The debacle with the Barrow King Dustin happens, and the Barrow King awards his daughter to the King In The North. The younger brother falls for her. She falls for him. The King In The North finds out, perhaps even catching them in the act (pregnancy/Stark line descent??).



Unable to kill his own brother and be named kinslayer, The King In The North sends his younger brother to the wall (with his direwolf), where he earns himself a place. Winter comes. The weather gets harsh, food grows scarce, and the Others begin to show themselves. The watch's numbers are dwindling, and in a desperate life or death attempt, young Stark offers and volunteers to go out in search of the children of the forest, knowing he may not return. The watch rejoice, and exclaim that he's the last hero among us, all we have left.



Younger Stark, the last hero, travels in search of the children, on horseback, with 12 other brothers, and his direwolf (dog). They all fall, one by one, and eventually, The Others find him and descend on him. About to die, he offers a desperate brokering of peace. The Others, kill him not, but listen to what he has to say. They strike a bargain, perhaps even bestow upon him the Ice Gift (as it can be transferred, apparently), or perhaps even give him a blade of their own to solidify this fragile pact (Ice).



Younger Stark returns, and he is commended for his actions, the attacks would have stopped, and name him, the 13th Lord Commander and thus, his reign begins. 13 years passes. But something always bothered 13th Lord Commander Stark, now wielding Ice. What became of that Barrow King's daughter? She's married his brother, The King In The North, maybe they even have a child thats 13 by now with questionable parentage. Daughter of a Barrow King, hmm. If Sansa Stark came into power, her nickname or monicker might be the "wolf queen." Daenerys, perhaps would be known as the "Dragon Queen/Mad Dragon Queen." What would a Barrow King's daughter's monicker be? I wouldn't think it so outrageous to believe "Corpse Queen" would be a great monicker for the daughter of a Barrow King.



13th Lord Commander Stark leaves the watch and ventures southward, perhaps to see the woman he fell for, or, his potential child. The watch have been fighting off wildlings for years at this point, and when The King In The North finds out his exiled brother is blatantly disobeying his exile and making a return, the King and King Beyond The Wall form a temporary alliance to smash the 13th Lord Commander when he arrives. It works out for the King In The North, as his family and lands wouldnt be threatened by his brother any longer, and it helps The King Beyond The Wall because getting rid of a Lord Commander that's been a thorn in their side for years is just too good to pass up.



The 13th Lord Commander is overwhelmed by the joined forces, his forces fail, this is where winter fell, but slips away. This causes a rift in the Night's Watch, as it makes them look absolutely TERRIBLE. It also sully's the Stark name, the actions of a former Stark-turned-Lord Commander that should have abandoned his previous life. The King In The North and the Night's Watch make an agreement: exile his younger brother from the Watch, to meet a fate worse than instant-death execution, and strike his name from the records. He will live out the rest of his life on his own, without any faction to help him. The watch strikes his name from their records, in accordance with The King In The North's request, keeping the Stark name clean, and they villainize the 13th Lord Commander, twisting the tale to make them seem the protagonist. "He forswore his vows," "slept with the Corpse Queen (who may just have blue eyes, pale complexion, maybe even albino like Bloodraven)."



The 13th Lord Commander ventures north, beyond the wall, and into the darkness, taking with him his blade, Ice, which is not in fact lost, but being wielded by him. He joins the only faction left that would have him ("I forged a pact with you, and I intend to keep it" mentality), and vows vengeance on those that have wronged him. Vows to break past the wall, smash the watch that betrayed him and his name, and go to Winterfell once more, perhaps it's crypts, where the Barrow King's daughter, Queen Dustin, (perhaps even their own child) is buried.



And he shall be named, The Night's King, woe to those that stand before him. Ever-living, immortal, he still serves his Night's Oath, taking Craster's babies, fathering none, taking only the boys, so there are no women or females to marry, and living as an outcast, nomadic, ever moving for Winterfell, holding no lands. Loving, and laying with, the Corpse Queen, before he swore his vows (technically).



All this is speculation until proven Otherwise, but it humanizes the story, supports that there are in fact no such thing as female Others (dont get yourself in a bunch, the nonexistence of a female Other is also just speculation), and that everything else was Night's Watch heresay as there is no one to contradict anything.



This supports TLH=TNK, as a Stark, and also where the original Ice is located (in his grasp to this day). This doesnt take into consideration BtB by itself.



This would also make 13th Lord Commander a Neverborn, if youre familiar with the terminology.



Points of note:


Old Nan - "All crows are liars."



"There was once nobility in the watch."



Bran thought old nan was confused -- she always called everyone in her stories Bran. (This implies the stories of the last hero, and the night's king, but may also hint at bran the builder)



Lady Dustin's interest in descending the Winterfell crypts with Theon (possible ancestry)



Per Barbrey Dustin wiki:



Before leaving the crypts, Barbrey and Theon discover that swords are missing from the tombs, including that of Brandon Stark, her lover from her youth. (Possible symbolic postshadowing??? A Lady Dustin, and a Stark, and a missing sword.......sound familiar????)



Edited by Blazfemur

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All world mythology has astronomy at it's heart, and Geroge has emulated this in ASOIAF. The entire series has a skeleton of astronomy underpinning all of its world building, symbolism, and forces of magic. Magic and astronomy are interconnected, and celestial events are mirrored by the events involving the characters on the ground. There once really was a second moon, and its destruction by comet was the cause of the Long Night... Except that the moon was a magical fire moon, while the one we have left is the ice moon, and together these magical moons governed the seasons and the magical forces on Planetos. Destroy the fire moon, and suddenly ice magic is unchecked... presto, the Long Night.

The myth of Azor Ahai, Nissa Nissa, and Lightbringer is the story of a sun striking the fire moon with a comet. Azor Ahai is the sun, the red comet his sword, and Nissa Nissa the moon. Nissa actually means "grandmother moon," while Azor Ahai roughly translates to "fire dragon."

Azor Ahai was a bad guy who caused the Long Night, not the hero who ended it, just as the sun was seen to have struck the moon, his wide, with a red sword (comet), which caused the Long Night.

The story of the Blood Betrayal from the far east, where the Bloodstone Emperor usurped the throne of the Great Empiure of the Dawn from his sister, the rightful ruler the Amethyst Empress, is actually another version of the Azor Ahai myth, with Azor Ahai as the Bloodstone Emperor.

Oh and I think I proved all of this quite convincingly, as odd as it may sound to those who haven't looked for the astronomy underlying the mythology. The proof is all throughout the series, in every book. And nobody else has proposed this theory, anywhere, for better or worse. ;)

Astonomy of Planetos:

Behind the Legends - lays out the initial astronomy of the Azor Ahai legend

The Bloodstone Compendium - Azor Ahai as the bad guy, the legend of Lucifer, Morningstar deities

Fingerprints of the Dawn - everything we can infer about the proto-Valyrian dragon riding people of the Dawn Age from Asshai, who is responsible for all the dragon stories before Valyria and the Long Night, fused stone structures

I have more coming in this series, several more.

Edited by Lucifer means Lightbringer

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Which one is the theory about Littlefinger's true identity? I remember reading one about him possibly being a Reyne or Castamere some time ago? Is that still on here?

That one fell off the shelf snd cracked.

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Have there been Daario as a faceless man theories? Was doing a RR of FFC and saw this in an Arya chapter:

The handsome man had a beard of a different color every time she saw him, and a different nose, but he was never less than comely.

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Hello. I am new so please let me know if this has already been discussed to death and/or disproved, as I notice it is not listed in the topic here. Please let me know if I need to hide spoilers, but I think this thread is pretty much all spoilers, so people have been warned.


I'm a bit suprised to find that so many people focus on Tyrion's paternity, when, to me, it was really the paternity of Cersei and Jamie that was called into question by Gemma's comments. It's possible she is either lying (I doubt it) or misinformed (possible, I suppose), but she basically implied that she didn't believe Tywin was Cersei and Jamie's biological father. We know for a fact that Aerys would have had opportunity to impregnate Joanna (consentually or not is a whole other issue). There's even the rumors and implications that Joanna had sex with Aerys before she married Tywin


My point is, why is no one discussing this huge possibility? I think the most interesting aspect is that it would make Jamie not just Kingslayer, but Kinslayer, with Kinslayer possibly being foreshadowed in Cat's chapter when she sees Renly holding court and the two fools are fighting. I can look it up if anyone wants the specific quote I am reffering to.



Unrelated, but I feel that it is HIGHLY likely that Maggie's prophecy to Cercei is actually telling us that it will be Jamie who strangles her to death. She doesn't really think of him as her "little brother" but I think that Cercei's problem is she always sees enemies in the wrong places and mean-while is practically blind to the real threats. It would be her ultimate downfall to die at Jamie's hands and I really think it will happen.


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snip

Hello, then, and welcome to the forums here :cheers:

As for Genna, I assume you refer to this quote:

"Jaime," she said, tugging on his ear, "sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak... but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once i a thousand years."

I never took its meaning so literally. I would have never thought that Genna implies that Jaime's father was not Tywin. Instead, she wants to say that Tyrion is the one who inherited Tywin's character and abilities. In that way, he's more of "Tywin's son" than Jaime ever was.

Aerys+Joanna=Cersei and Jaime is not a new theory (so yes, it's weird how it's not listed out in the OP), but its proponents mostly rely on other stuff to prove it (like Cersei's slide into madness), not on Genna's speech.

As for spoiler policy: they're only needed when discussing stuff from still unpublished The Winds of Winter, while all of Martin's published works are fair game.

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In The Winds: The Endgame of Thrones Series


Below are summaries and links to all the theories in my Endgame of Thrones theory series which has now ended. It's an encyclopaedia of theories. I had a blast writing them, and hope you enjoy reading them too.

The IceBrandon: "Winter Is Flying"

·         "Winter is coming" means the ice dragon named Winter is coming.

·         Bloodraven via Bran wakes the icedragon named Winter in the black pool of Winterfell.

·         Bran has already flown as the ice dragon in his dream where he gave his (corn) seed and his soul to the crow, Bloodraven.

·         Bran died and was reborn with the magic of the ground and weirwood roots just as Dany died and was reborn by fire.

·         This entire story is set in play by the conflict between Bran and Jaime when Jaime threw Bran from the tower. Their conflict begins the saga and it will frame its conclusion.

 

Lightsounder: The Hammerhorn of the Waters

·         The Hammer of the Waters may be a horn; Euron's horn. The Hammerhorn of the Waters sounded by Daenerys “the Unburnt”, who is the only one who wouldn’t burn from the inside after sounding it three times to bring a Ragnarokgeddon apocalypse.

·         Dany summons the red comet to strike the moon which brings the Long Night. Chunks of moon falls to Earthos bringing plumes of smoke to block out the sun and bring darkness. Simultaneously the moons gravity brings flooding and cold. Azor Ahai’s sword may also be a horn.

·         Azor Ahai’s sword may also be a horn.

·         The Hammerhorn may be one of three Lightbringers that I call Lightsounder or Nightsounder.

 

Azor Ahannister & The Others That Were Promised

·         “Golden hand” means Lord of Light in Valyrian.

·         Jamie will forge the blue-white flamed Lightbringer through (Brienne) killing Lady Stoneheart, then fulfilling both the valonqar and Azor Ahai prophesies in killing Cersei and lasty through killing his love Brienne.

·         The Others That Were Promised: there are maybe over a dozen or more heroes prophesied.

·         There may be three or more Azor Ahai's: Sam, Jamie and Dany (who is a Nissa Nissa figure).

·         Dragonsteel may be forged with ironwood charcoal. The fire of the dragon not the fire from the dragon is needed to forge it, namely the life soulfire of the dragon.

 

Brienne The "More Beautiful"

·         Why Brienne is Jamie’s Nissa Nissa.

 

The Stone Dragon is Made of Ice

·         The stone dragon Melissandre wants to wake is Winter the ice dragon.

 

The Ice Dragon Must Have Three Heads

·         Aside from Winter the enormous ice dragon, there may be two more ice dragons in the cave with Bloodraven.

 

The Hooded Man of Winterfell Revealed

·         This provides the basis for “For The Night”, Theon is the sleepwalking killer of Yellow Dick by being a nightwalkee to the nightwalker Euron, the hooded man of Winterfell.

·         Euron controlled Theon's movements via a glass candle.

 

"For The Night"

·         Jon’s death was not a murder. It was a blood sacrifice to wake the stone dragon... that is made of ice.

·         Euron is the nighwalker that used a glass candle to control the movments and conscious actions of Theon the nightwalkee.

·         The body language of Jon’s killers tells the truth but words lie.

 

Winter Fell: Death of Azor Ahai & The IceBrandon

·         Jamie is one of the reborn manifestations of Azor Ahai.

·         Jamie will thrust a flaming Lightbringer sword into Winter the IceBrandon melting the ice dragon and extinguishing Lightbringer.

·         When Lightbringer’s fire goes out, so does Jamie. Both die in the process.

 

Flight of The IceBrandon: Chapter Review

·         A line by line chapter review of Bran’s flight as the ice dragon.

 

The Garden of Edenos: The Roots of The Entire Story

·         This is a tale of two trees, the song of black ironwood and white weirwood, the tree of knowledge and the tree of eternal life.

 

The Lace Serpent: Duskendale & The Night's Queen

·         The Lace Serpent Lady Serala is a Metaphor for the Nights Queen.

 

The Secret Second Wall

·         There is a second secret Wall at the Bloody Gate and Lord Commander Brynden Tully is in charge of it.

·         The Boneway in Dorne may be a third secret wall too.

 

Very Fishy: Osha Turncloak

·         Osha may be a Deep One and kidnapped Rickon.

·         Shaggy Dogs eyes are green like wildfire which is associated with water.

 

The Halfdivorce

·         Tyrion is still married to Tysha and his marriage to Sansa is nullified.

·         Petyr knows because Tysha works in his brothel at the Happy Port.

·         Tyrion will help the mountain clansmen take over the Vale.

 

The IcePriestess of Asshai

·         Melissandre unknowingly worships ice and not fire.

·         GRRM commissioned a custom Melissandre figurine in ice colors.

 

The Ruse of Bolton

·         Roose Bolton may skinflaynge into Robb and “surprise Jon at the Wall”.

 

Roose The Rat Cook

·         Roose may be (one of) the Rat Cook(s).

 

The CIA: The Citadel Intelligence Agency

·         History is written not by the victors, history is written by the maesters.

·         In ways great and small the Citadel has altered our understanding of history for their own mysterious and seemingly anti-magic nepharious purposes.

·         Robin Arryn's shaking sickness is not epilepsy but drug withdrawal from sweetsleep which is used to both manipulate and then kill him.

·         Why the Citadel may be another Rat Cook.

 

Tyrion & Samwell Are The Riddlers of The Sphinx

·         Tyrion and Sam are the riddlers.

·         Tyrion’s is missing a nose like the Egyptian Sphinx and his riddle is where do whores go.

·         Sam is the one posing the riddles about the riddler and is thus The Riddler.

 

Beyond Horrible: The Meaning of "The Dornishman's Wife"

·         The song doesn’t mean what we think it means.

·         It is a song about the Long Night.

 

Aemon Targaryen: The Icedragonknight

·         Jon's true name is Aemon. He will come back othered.

·         Jon become Aemon the Icedragonknight reborn atop Winter the icedragon.

 

The Three Heads of The Dragon Are...

·         Not the Targaryen fire dragon riders.

·         They are fire, ice and sea dragons.

 

The Game of Horns: Blow or Get Blown

·         Horn of Winter helps wake or control Winter the ice dragon.

·         The Horn of Joramun is Euron’s/Dany’s horn that brings the red comet to strike the moon caushing darkness, an ice age and flooding which freezes the unfathomably large world serpent, the sea dragon Joramun.

·         Joramun may be partially frozen in the Wall and after sounding the Hammerhorn it is sent free.

·         The Stepstone islands are scales of this enormous sea dragon. When the Horn of Joramun, the Hammerhorn is sounded these mountains will blow in the wind like leaves.

·         The future Stromking will defeat the enormous serpent Joramun.

·         The Horn that Wakes the Sleepers brings enormous giants back into the world.

·         We have never seen true giants. These giants dwarf Wun Wun by a mile.

·         There may be stone, fire and ice giants metaphorically or literally.

Fire and Blood Wyrms

·       Dany is blood of the wyrm

The Seven Children

·         The squirrel people of the forrest in Bran's cave is with are named after the Seven gods.

·         The Seven and the Old Gods are the same religion.

 

We Are The World... We Are The Children

·         Children grow up to become men.

 

Tormund Giantsbane: Husband to She-Bears

·         Tormund may have slept with Alysane Mormont either in human form or if she skinchanged into a bear.

·         He is the father of her two cubs.

 

unOberyn Star-Eyes Martell

·         Oberyn Martell is Simeon Star-Eyes

 

Maury Povich and The Baratheon Tapestries

·         The Baratheon Tapestries are like Ned’s book of family lineages to show that Myrcella and Tommen are bastards because they don’t have black hair.

 

Nymeria And Her 10,000 Wolves

·         Nymeria will lead a pack of wolves at the Wall. They may fight ice spiders.

 

Did The Red Meteor Cause The Long Night?

·         This post was the basis for my Hammerhorn of The Waters post.

 

The Others Are Not The True Enemy

·         The gods are the enemy, not the Others.

·         The gods are those who have eaten of both the tree of knowledge and the tree of eternal life.

·         Dany is a god and thus "the enemy", per se.

·         This will be fifty shades of greyscale: beyond good and evil. All sides in the conflict will have just reasons for their unjust actions.

·         This post builds from the Garden of Edenos.

 

unCivil War for The Dawn

·         The Long Night will echo the battles between the “Greystarks”, Starks and Bolton’s as it did previously.


The Purpose of Ice Spiders

·         Spiders climb Walls.

 

R'hllor and The Lord of Light Revealed. They Are Different People

·         Bloodraven is R’hllor and Jamie is the Lord of Light.

 

Brave Arya Stark: A Song To Make Us Weep

·         Arya is Brave Danny Flint

 

Mad-Axe Revealed

·         unWill will be back.

 

Jafer Flowers Is...

·         Gennifer Flowers

 

Edited by Daendrew

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Have someone ever looked into the relationship between Jon and Ghost?

I am rereading ADwD and just finished Jon XI where he comes back from treating with Tormund and his 4'000 free folks. When he steps out from the negotiation, Ghost is not with him but comes later with Val. A thought crept on me then, about the connection between Jon and Ghost. My memory is too bad for recalling how it's been in the past but what I came to think about was that each time Jon makes decisions that are bad for him or him not being true to himself, where is Ghost then?

Just as inklings we've had before about Robb not trusting Greywind when he snarls at people, Ghost taking fancy to Melisandre and things like that. So maybe this has more to do with the connection of the Stark's direwolves and their human counterparts in general. In Ghost's case he is more quiet than the others so maybe it shows in another way than open snarling like with Greywind. He is somewhat more special, just as Jon(?).

There might be nothing here and just my mind longing for something extra, a deeper meaning or likewise. But still, had to ask. We all know that there is something special about the direwolves. If not, I might look into it myself.

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Have someone ever looked into the relationship between Jon and Ghost?

I am rereading ADwD and just finished Jon XI where he comes back from treating with Tormund and his 4'000 free folks. When he steps out from the negotiation, Ghost is not with him but comes later with Val. A thought crept on me then, about the connection between Jon and Ghost. My memory is too bad for recalling how it's been in the past but what I came to think about was that each time Jon makes decisions that are bad for him or him not being true to himself, where is Ghost then?

Just as inklings we've had before about Robb not trusting Greywind when he snarls at people, Ghost taking fancy to Melisandre and things like that. So maybe this has more to do with the connection of the Stark's direwolves and their human counterparts in general. In Ghost's case he is more quiet than the others so maybe it shows in another way than open snarling like with Greywind. He is somewhat more special, just as Jon(?).

There might be nothing here and just my mind longing for something extra, a deeper meaning or likewise. But still, had to ask. We all know that there is something special about the direwolves. If not, I might look into it myself.

How about this (not a theory but some questions and discussion)...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113297-some-questions-about-jon-and-brans-hookup-on-the-weirnet/

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Definitely gonna read this tonight! Excited to read your thoughts on the Ice Dragon, I'm so sick of people disregarding this probability...

What people on the Internet think is irrelevantz only what a vested wizard In Santa Fe thinks matters. Then they will tell you of course it was obvious. When it wasn't.

The ice dragon is happening for sure. I think the IceBrandon is the biggest changes in the whole series.

Edited by Daen Targaryen

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I'm not sure if anybody already mentioned this, but I kinda came up with this theory that the White Walkers are actually Targaryen's. Like there were a line of Targaryen's who were messing with Black Magic or in this case "Ice" Magic, to gain power and become immortal, I don't have much to go on obviously, but they seem to be the total opposite of the Targaryen's like Satanist and Christians, if that makes any sense.

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The list should be updated:





This theory has been debunked by TWOIAF. Olenna's Targaryen Prince was in fact Duncan's little brother.



EDIT: While we're at it, what's up with the Brightfyre Theory title being in all caps? As the starter of the original Brightfyre thread, I'm pretty certain that the title wasn't completely in capslock :p


Edited by Veltigar

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The list should be updated:

This theory has been debunked by TWOIAF. Olenna's Targaryen Prince was in fact Duncan's little brother.

EDIT: While we're at it, what's up with the Brightfyre Theory title being in all caps? As the starter of the original Brightfyre thread, I'm pretty certain that the title wasn't completely in capslock :p

But... um... sweetie, that was such a good OP :)

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