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The Night's King's next moves


gash

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So does this rule out the Stannis = NK theory?



Also I don't buy the whole NK = leader of the others idea



I mean, the Others attacked during the long night. Then they were defeated. The NK didn't happen until after the long night, after the NW had been formed and been in existence for some time. So, it's illogical chronologically, to have a NW commander mate with a female Other, and then that NW commander become the NK, and he go on to create the Other Race, if the others were in existence before the NW commander became the NK, because the others attacked before there was even a NW, and the NW came before the NK, but if the others are born from the NK and don't come till after the NK, then how did the NW form if there were no others yet, because there wasnt a NK yet, and if there wasn't a NK yet to create the others, then how was there a female other to mate with the NW comander, to make the NK.... I mean, am I the only one who sees the flaws here? Its literally like running around in circles.


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they went out of their way in the season 2 history and lore of Westeros to tell this tale...

Richard Brake played the Night's King...

[...]

None of this has anything to do with the book series. Show me where there's evidence of the Night's King building an army of Others in the books and then we can have an actual debate.

As far as I know, there is NO evidence in the books that the Night's King is alive and turning human babies into the Others north of the Wall. None. There is a suggestion that the Others are turning the sacrifices into themselves but it's just a suggestion. We don't have confirmation of anything beyond that.

Regarding the Night's King, all we have is a story that's been passed down for over 8000 years. It's a story. It may have some truth to it but we really have no idea how much of it actually is true yet. Until it's in one of the books, it isn't canon for the book series.

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Actually I think there are a few hints in the books but people haven't been looking for them. I can't quote at the moment but when Bran thinks about Night's King Old Nan seems to hint he is still around. Also the fact it is always "Night's King" rather than "the Night's King" is also odd, it doesn't flow and I think it must mean something, maybe that Night is the name of some one/thing. There is also the problem of the timeline of the long night and NK which is actually not clear at all in the books even though some seen to assume it is spelled out somewhere. Lastly people have been pointing or for sometime the links between the LH and NK stories with the number 13 and the idea they could be the same character but told from different points of view.

I don't think people should be folding their arms and saying there is nothing in the books. There is stuff in the books it is just a matter of rereading and reanalysing.

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Actually I think there are a few hints in the books but people haven't been looking for them. I can't quote at the moment but when Bran thinks about Night's King Old Nan seems to hint he is still around. Also the fact it is always "Night's King" rather than "the Night's King" is also odd, it doesn't flow and I think it must mean something, maybe that Night is the name of some one/thing. There is also the problem of the timeline of the long night and NK which is actually not clear at all in the books even though some seen to assume it is spelled out somewhere. Lastly people have been pointing or for sometime the links between the LH and NK stories with the number 13 and the idea they could be the same character but told from different points of view.

I don't think people should be folding their arms and saying there is nothing in the books. There is stuff in the books it is just a matter of rereading and reanalysing.

I'm not dismissing the theory of the NK still being around. I'm just not seeing any actual evidence in this discussion that backs up that theory. All people have done is throw around theories based on what the show is doing.

If there's material in the books that backs up the existence of the Night's King (and I'm not saying it doesn't exist), then people should be finding and quoting that instead of trying to use the TV show as "proof." Using the show as evidence makes about as much sense as using Peter Jackson's The Hobbit movies as proof of something in the books. Otherwise it's basically just fanfiction.

If someone can make a good case for the existence of this particular legendary LC still being around using the books, then I'm more than willing to read it. I may even agree with it if the evidence is good enough. :) Unfortunately I only own hardcover copies of the books. So I'm unable to easily search and do my own digging without doing a lot of rereading. One of these days I'll buy the Kindle editions.

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Wit the way the show is going I would not be surpise one bit if show!Stannis turned NK.

If you consider that Mel in fact is a fiery Other, an assumption that I find plausible, then Stannis is already as much "Night's" King as it gets, only with Fire instead of Ice. I find that this is a much more... "clever" twist, him being the NK's polar opposite.

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I think Melisandre is more likely to be a reanimated human (along the lines of Beric Dondarrion and Lady Stoneheart) disguised with a glamour. At the very least, she seems to be hiding what she really looks like from others.

R'hllor reanimated Melisandre/Stannis into "fiery others" like the Great Other may have reanimated humans into ice demons?

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I think Melisandre is more likely to be a reanimated human (along the lines of Beric Dondarrion and Lady Stoneheart) disguised with a glamour. At the very least, she seems to be hiding what she really looks like from others.

Reanimating Beric or LSH had effect on their body. But Melisandre doesn't seem to have any such

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R'hllor reanimated Melisandre/Stannis into "fiery others" like the Great Other may have reanimated humans into ice demons?

What in the world is a "fiery other?" Dragons would likely be the most obvious opposite of the Others in this story.

Whatever the case, that isn't what I said at all. I said reanimated as in Melisandre had died at one point and was revived in the same manner as Beric Dondarrion or Lady Stoneheart. She's since kept a constant glamor on herself to hide her true appearance. I'm not saying that has to be the case. I was throwing it out there as a possibility.

GRRM has compared the Others to aos sí/aes sídhe from Irish and Scottish mythology.

Reanimating Beric or LSH had effect on their body. But Melisandre doesn't seem to have any such

I'm not quite sure what you mean. We know that Beric felt like each time he was brought back that part of him was missing. He even began to forget basic things about his life. But he had also died about 6 times or so. If Melisandre died once and was brought back, the impact on her memory would be minimal (compared to Beric).

But this is just speculation. I'm actually rather skeptical that Melisandre is reanimated. It isn't my favorite theory by any means. I'd rather Melisandre be a living human. I do think she's using a glamor to change how she appears and perhaps is hiding an important detail about herself (possibly making herself look younger and more attractive).

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why not call him White Walker King? White Walker Leader? or just a White Walker? Why call him the Night's King? Why remove his title the day after the screenplay was on the HBO website? And the season 2 dvd had a history and lore dedicated to the Night's King as well...

Well I call him Blue Maul.

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What in the world is a "fiery other?" Dragons would likely be the most obvious opposite of the Others in this story.

Red Priests. Almost no need for food or sleep, radiate heat, bring back the dead, immune to cold and poisons, possibly including alcohol (Thoros who famously could outdrink Robert), the thing Moqorro did with Vic's hand...

Also, I find it more fitting that a polar opposite to the Others should be humanoid as well.

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"Night’s King was only a man by light of day, Old Nan would always say, but the night was his to rule. And it’s getting dark."



If the long night 2.0 is coming then NK is coming with it.



"Those old histories are full of kings who reigned for hundreds of years, and knights riding around a thousand years before there were knights. You know the tales, Brandon the Builder, Symeon Star-Eyes, Night’s King"



Symeon Star-Eyes is an example of a knight who was riding about thousands of years before there were knights so Bran the Builder and Night's King are probably examples of kings of reigned for hundreds of years, so probably not ordinary mortals.



Ned - "The Others are as dead as the children of the forest, gone eight thousand years."


Robert - "The Wall has stood for what, eight thousand years?"


Jon - "The Others are only a story, a tale to make children shiver. If they ever lived at all, they are gone eight thousand years", "For eight thousand years the men of House Stark had lived and died to protect their people against such ravagers and reavers … and bastard-born or no, the same blood ran in his veins."


Jeor Mormont - "The Long Night has come before. Oh, eight thousand years is a good while, to be sure … yet if the Night’s Watch does not remember, who will?"


Bran - "He was old enough to know that it was not truly him they shouted for—it was the harvest they cheered, it was Robb and his victories, it was his lord father and his grandfather and all the Starks going back eight thousand years."


Sansa - "Lord of Winterfell, Hand of the King, Warden of the North, the mighty Eddard Stark, of a line eight thousand years old …"



The age of the wall, the NW, House Stark and the disappearance of the others are all said to be eight thousand years. There is no clear time line, it seems they all happened around the same time. However we have NK sacrificing to Others after the NW has been started and 12 LCs have come and gone so it is likely that NK, the wall and the NW existed during the long night and not after. It is confusing.


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"Night’s King was only a man by light of day, Old Nan would always say, but the night was his to rule. And it’s getting dark."

If the long night 2.0 is coming then NK is coming with it.

"Those old histories are full of kings who reigned for hundreds of years, and knights riding around a thousand years before there were knights. You know the tales, Brandon the Builder, Symeon Star-Eyes, Night’s King"

Symeon Star-Eyes is an example of a knight who was riding about thousands of years before there were knights so Bran the Builder and Night's King are probably examples of kings of reigned for hundreds of years, so probably not ordinary mortals.

Ned - "The Others are as dead as the children of the forest, gone eight thousand years."

Robert - "The Wall has stood for what, eight thousand years?"

Jon - "The Others are only a story, a tale to make children shiver. If they ever lived at all, they are gone eight thousand years", "For eight thousand years the men of House Stark had lived and died to protect their people against such ravagers and reavers … and bastard-born or no, the same blood ran in his veins."

Jeor Mormont - "The Long Night has come before. Oh, eight thousand years is a good while, to be sure … yet if the Night’s Watch does not remember, who will?"

Bran - "He was old enough to know that it was not truly him they shouted for—it was the harvest they cheered, it was Robb and his victories, it was his lord father and his grandfather and all the Starks going back eight thousand years."

Sansa - "Lord of Winterfell, Hand of the King, Warden of the North, the mighty Eddard Stark, of a line eight thousand years old …"

The age of the wall, the NW, House Stark and the disappearance of the others are all said to be eight thousand years. There is no clear time line, it seems they all happened around the same time. However we have NK sacrificing to Others after the NW has been started and 12 LCs have come and gone so it is likely that NK, the wall and the NW existed during the long night and not after. It is confusing.

My guess is the time line is partially based on oral tradition and partially on Maesters and Septons trying to make sense of the oral tradition once the Andals had introduced writing and there were insterest in writing chronicles of the Age of Heroes.

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