[Book Spoilers] EP406 Discussion

[Colonel Green]

Does Varys know Arya is alive but he chooses not to reveal it? He had his "birds" find information on the Hound in the riverlands, insofar that they even knew word for word what the Hound said as he killed those soldiers. I find it hard to believe that whoever tells him the words the Hound said does not tell him that there's a little girl traveling with this big man.

"Little girl" doesn't equal "Arya". None of his sources in that area would have any idea who Arya was.

[basilisk312]

The necklace shown on the trial is not the one Ser Dontos gave to Sansa, Littlefinger used the handle of his dagger to smash that one on the ship,

sigh

[Gneisenau]

If Tyrion controlled his temper earlier on, (aka not threatening the King) his trials wouldn't have been anywhere near humiliating.

[Stark11]

I think Tyrion demanded trial by combat knowing Oberyn would defend him. In the show he knows Oberyns hated for the Lannisters (mainly Tywin) and helping Tyrion get free would not only piss off Tywin but also Cersei. And maybe Tyrion knows Cersei will choose The Mountain (bc he is "unbeatable"). Plus in the trailer for EP. 7 he says something that makes me think he knew how things would play out.

Just a theory for the show.

[basilisk312]

No way Tywin kills Shae. It will be Tyrion, now that we've seen his dark side for the first time

And yet again another variant of the Rains of Castamere will be playing. Can they introduce the Dornishman's wife or something just so it's clear that Westeros has more than 2 songs?

but it was always tyrion, unless you're saying you were *worried* that d&d would make it tywin

[Stark11]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/05/11/game-of-thrones-tyrion-trial-interview/

Good interview with Cogman about the past few episodes and Tyrions trial. Address your 'Rains' complaints and others. Love the little insight into how they write the episodes.

[Woman of War]

If Tyrion controlled his temper earlier on, (aka not threatening the King) his trials wouldn't have been anywhere near humiliating.

Yes, he should have left Sansa to her fate and looked the other way when she got beaten, so inconsiderate of him.

[SerArthurHeath]

but it was always tyrion, unless you're saying you were *worried* that d&d would make it tywin

Some other people were suggesting that, yes

[Gneisenau]

Yes, he should have left Sansa to her fate and looked the other way when she got beaten, so inconsiderate of him.

Did he stop Sansa's beating ? Blount still hit her.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Gneisenau

[ckal]

Wow. While the story differs I think it is a great adaption. Adaption being the operative word there. ASOIAF could never be made into a television series or movie with out changes for SO many reason. Literally too many reasons to list, but the main one being that there are WAY too many characters in the books to fit into a screen adaption.

Is it still considered fanfic if the author is an executive producer?

There are sensical changes made for good reasons, and there are completely non sensical changes made for no logical reason at all.

Unfortunately, HBO's adaptation has more of the latter, not former. On top of cutting great scenes from the books that would enhance the show, time is used on ill advised scenes with crappy 'characters' and 'plots' and many made up scenes which turn out to be dreadful, lacking any real impact. The best example of the entire series is probably when D&D applied their genious and thought it woul d be better for Cat to let Jaime go without even thinking her kids at Winterfell were dead, which was basically her entire motivation from the books. Literally all they had to do was add 1 minute scene where she finds out before releasing Jaime, instead it results in a completely ridiculous and unebelievable ending.

Side complaint being HBO's adaptation is so over the top hit you in the face with things it leaves nothing to the imagination. Subetly is entirely lost with D&D, and I really think they aren't good enough writers over all to truly do ASOIAF justice, whereas more literarily competant writers/show runners may have.

Also, GRRM literally has zero say in the end on what the show does or doesn't do. Even as a writer on one episode per season, he still must stay within the established guidelines and do what D&D want him to. They also make changes to his scripts after the fact like adding, moving, or changes scenes. Even with the author as exec producer, D&D can still and do make up whatever they like. GRRM has no power here. The rights are sold and he must live with the decision as he has talked about so often in the past.

Edited May 12, 2014 by ckal

[Karmarni]

About the Hound mention at the SC. Could it be that what offs Sandor is the bounty on his head ?

I think it was just to build the drama element that he's now hunted.

[SerArthurHeath]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/05/11/game-of-thrones-tyrion-trial-interview/

Good interview with Cogman about the past few episodes and Tyrions trial. Address your 'Rains' complaints and others. Love the little insight into how they write the episodes.

"And in his outburst, he inadvertently acts like how they all assume he is this vengeful person.

Yeah. Finally after years of being laughed at and abused and beaten down by almost everybody in his life, Tyrion would rather go out armed with a sword and be brutally murdered than give into his father one more inch. Then the final shot is father and son staring each other down."

As a Jaime fan, I find this very interesting

[Karmarni]

There are sensical changes made for good reasons, and there are completely non sensical changes made for no logical reason at all.

Unfortunately, HBO's adaptation has more of the latter, not former. On top of cutting great scenes from the books that would enhance the show, time is used on ill advised scenes with crappy 'characters' and 'plots' and many made up scenes which turn out to be dreadful, lacking any real impact .

Couldn't agree more. It's becoming so off base. That I can't even figure out a reason for the changes is frustrating. I truly wish that D&D would try to clarify some of them.

[Colonel Green]

Because of dogs?

She ran because of two dogs?

Fuck off Yara, you're no Asha.

The scene where Ramsay unveils the robotic Richard Simmons had to be cut for time.

[Woman of War]

Did he stop Sansa's beating ? Blount still hit her.

I guess you did not properly understand what you read or saw.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Woman of War

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I think Tyrion demanded trial by combat knowing Oberyn would defend him. In the show he knows Oberyns hated for the Lannisters (mainly Tywin) and helping Tyrion get free would not only piss off Tywin but also Cersei. And maybe Tyrion knows Cersei will choose The Mountain (bc he is "unbeatable"). Plus in the trailer for EP. 7 he says something that makes me think he knew how things would play out.

Just a theory for the show.

I'm not so sure if he knows Oberyn would defend him. So far, he's one of the judges and they haven't had the interaction they had in books.

Yes, he should have left Sansa to her fate and looked the other way when she got beaten, so inconsiderate of him.

He was ok trying to defend her, but the way he did could have been more clever, specially knowing what kind of temper Joffrey and Cersei had. He's smarter than that.

[Carl Rhaego]

I hope those who always complain about Dany being perfect and flawless are happier now, because she looked like a total idiot in this episode. The son of a slavemaster claims his father was totally innocent in the deaths of the children and she believes him instantly because slave masters are such honest people who always say the truth, right? Giving in so easily will make her look weak and manipulable to the Meereense nobles.

Then the goat herder says Drogon killed all his livestock when we clearly saw that he only took single goat the rest got away. Of course Dany doesn't question this and promises him three times the worth of all his animals in gold. Barristan gives her a look like 'Are you stupid?'. She never asks for proof. How did the goat herder get the bones when Drogon carried his prey off into the far away mountains? Now when the word spreads that Dany is paying gold for animal bones, people can just burn their livestock, bring it to her and make some big cash (I think that's what happens in ADWD, correct me if I'm wrong), it was a really dumb move. They are really showing her as a bad and naive ruler from the moment she sits on the bench.

[Fool of a Book]

Nice episode overall, But I'm pretty confused about Shae's motivation to testify. In HBO's behind the scenes video 'No Turning Back' Sibel Kekilli states Shae wants revenge, but during the scene itself it seemed to me she was obviously coerced. Either they are still going somewhere different with Shae or their decision to change her character so much has finally come back to bite them.

Yes, she seemed coerced to state her lies about Tyrion and Sansa, with the obvious motivation being that Tywin promised Tyrion would be sent to the Wall, and not executed.

Unfortunately, no one gave Tyrion the memo. He seemed to believe Jaime wasn't lying, but did not trust that his father and Cersei would let him live so easily. "But that's what they promised Ned Stark!"

Anyway, it was pretty clear to me that the show writers have set up Shae's motivations are trying to protect Tyrion, no condemn him. Very deftly combining her bitterness with her concern.

Still weirded out about her lies about Sansa, however.

Does Varys know Arya is alive but he chooses not to reveal it? He had his "birds" find information on the Hound in the riverlands, insofar that they even knew word for word what the Hound said as he killed those soldiers. I find it hard to believe that whoever tells him the words the Hound said does not tell him that there's a little girl traveling with this big man.

It seemed crystal clear to me that Varys knew the Hound was travelling with Arya. By extension, seems crystal clear Varys knows exactly where Sansa is. I mean come on, what idiot in the Seven Kingdoms wouldn't put Sansa together with Petyr's newly appeared Bastard/Niece?

[Darryk]

Utterly brilliant episode.

Give Peter Dinklage the emmy.

Give Bryan Cogman 4 episodes to write next season.

[StrollofShame]

The show is just making it clear that Varys will help Tyrion. I'd be interested in seeing if during the "Previously On..." they include this scene before Ep. 10 starts.

I agree with this assessment. Wondered for a moment if LATER, this might not cast suspicion on V with Cersei--I believe this was show-only dialog. Guess she'll have her hands full soon & this exchange would be the least of her worries.