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[Book Spoilers] EP406 Discussion

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HBO? And reading the books didn't ring your bells about sexism in Westeros? When daughters AND sons are forced to marry against their will? When in the Riverruns pretty much every girl has been raped, or so said Jaime? When Randyll Tarly says that Brienne could learn to behave like a proper lady after a good old rape?

I get it. Women being treated like objects offend people. But in Westeros, women were treated like properties. And, in many societies, they still are (#BringBackOurGirls, anyone?). This reminded me of those idiots who whined and whined about taking down the part of my national anthem that says we were slaves because it wasn't true. It was true and now people think it's not and someone wrote down those lyrics because it simply was feeling creative and with low self-esteem. Hiding how women were treated in history because it hurt susceptibilities doesn't do anybody a favour: it's the other way around. There were no Talisas in middle ages saying "uuuh, your world is barbaric!". they were given the barbaric treatment.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

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Stunned by the number of people who think there was any serious amount of sincerity in anything that Hizdahr said. I doubt if his father spoke out against the stuff he said at all. He's just coming in with a sob story because he's probably heard that the new queen always buys sob stories. We saw that with the goatherd.



Great episode. I really liked the way they translated the trial scene into the show. It lost some things but preserved the key essence, while adding others, like Margaery's reactions to the proceedings, knowing what we know about her insight into the truth of the matter.


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Popularity isn't proof of quality. It just proves that the majority of people lack taste.

'It's not to my liking therefore everyone who does like it is wrong'.

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Or it proves that you're a hard viewer to please.

I've actually been fairly tolerant of a lot of the changes they've made to the series up until now. Tonight's episode just made me cringe though. Repeatedly.

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'It's not to my liking therefore everyone who does like it is wrong'.

92% of those who rated this ep voted 8-10. Guess the 8% have good taste, and the rest of us on this site have no idea what we're evaluating.

Edited by LilJonUmber

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Stunned by the number of people who think there was any serious amount of sincerity in anything that Hizdahr said. I doubt if his father spoke out against the stuff he said at all. He's just coming in with a sob story because he's probably heard that the new queen always buys sob stories. We saw that with the goatherd.

Great episode. I really liked the way they translated the trial scene into the show. It lost some things but preserved the key essence, while adding others, like Margaery's reactions to the proceedings, knowing what we know about her insight into the truth of the matter.

Man, on this we can agree. He was a joke on the book and a shameless asskisser, but here I was like, "he's...actually making sense"

JA! It doesn't matter if he was lying or not, he was making valid arguments and pointing out how Dany's form of justice was shortsighted and emotional. Personally I don't think he was totally lying, even if he was playing up the grieving son angle. That's just persuasive speech tactics.

Edited by PhoenixFlame

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Best episode of the season so far, after two fairly slow ones. Started a bit weak, ended on a tremendous note.



-Braavos looks awesome, and has the best representation in the opening credits. Davos was awesome, as was Saan. But Stannis himself said too little. He seemed to just give up, and Davos had to save his ass. Really, Stannis, give up? I know the showrunners don't really like him, but whenever you appreciate the man or not, ''giving up'' is just not part of his friggin vocabulary.



-The Dreadfort scene was lamer than I thought it would be. It starts all badass with Yara making an awesome speech and sneaking all ninjaviking like in the Bolton's home turf, only to be twarted by shirtless Ramsay (against armored raiders with shields? Come on...) and his two dogs. I get that Yara thought Theon was gone, but just running for the hills without even trying to kill the asshole who did this to her lil bro seems almost cowardly. On the other hand, awesome acting by Theon and Ramsay's actors.



-Dany finally gets a scene where she doesn't end with a smug smile on her face and gets called on her shit. It seems the show has resolve to round out Meereen a bit and really showcase how perfect little Khalessi isin't adored by absolutely everyone. About time.



-Small Council meetings are always gold. I loved Oberyn chilling in his chair while the others jumped up at the mere scent of Tywin. And Jorah is totally getting ratted out by Lord Lannister.



-Varys bringing on the Aegon foeshadowing big time. His actor is really good and the Spider needed screen time badly. Me likes.



-The trial; almost perfect. It only required the 'giant of Lannister'' line. Hell, I think they made Tywin smarter than in the books with his trap to Jaime, it's a fairly elegant way to sort out the mess honestly. But of couse Tywin just had to twist the knife with Shae and ruin his own plan by getting Tyrion royally pissed off. Also loved the Tyrion-Jaime exchanges and the worried, unsure looks on the Kingslayer's face as the trial goes on. And of course Peter Dinklage nails the epic final speech as I 100% knew he would. About time he shows some anger too.

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HBO? And reading the books didn't ring your bells about sexism in Westeros? When daughters AND sons are forced to marry against their will? When in the Riverruns pretty much every girl has been raped, or so said Jaime? When Randyll Tarly says that Brienne could learn to behave like a proper lady after a good old rape?

I get it. Women being treated like objects offend people. But in Westeros, women were treated like properties. And, in many societies, they still are (#BringBackOurGirls, anyone?). This reminded me of those idiots who whined and whined about taking down the part of my national anthem that says we were slaves because it wasn't true. It was true and now people think it's not and someone wrote down those lyrics because it simply was feeling creative and with low self-esteem. Hiding how women were treated in history because it hurt susceptibilities doesn't do anybody a favour: it's the other way around. There were no Talisas in middle ages saying "uuuh, your world is barbaric!". they were given the barbaric treatment.

:thumbsup: Its the reason why the characters that are female we have are so great. Asha doesnt put up with shit, Ellaria is milking it to gather intel, Sansa stands her ground (and is building a fucking snow castle goddammit!). Lysa gets what she wants (at her own expense), Cersei uses the system and manipulates it to put her babies on the throne. The babies she wanted. Arya faces a bleak reality and has to cope with that. Ygritte fights for the freedom of her and her people. Dany tests the waters to rule and faces challenges by trying to overturn a bad system. Brienne makes her own way for her own honor. Melisandre wants to save the world in the name of her god. These girls are making waves and the contrast has to be made for them to do so. If it offends people, i have to ask if we even have seen and read the same series. The bleating....im tired of it.

*leans forward in chair, brushes mustache*

his what?

lel

What?

:rolleyes: seriously. If you hate something like this adaptation, why are you watching it? There are readers of the series who have chosen not to watch the show and by proxy, they wont bitch about it. It would be a good idea to take a leaf from them so those of us enjoying ourselves dont have to hear this noise.

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Hi guys.



Idk if this has been brought up yet (just signed up), but does anyone have a clue how they are going to pull off the moondoor situation? Because they've shown no hints of a singer so far at the Eyrie, and the show has already disposed of Marillion sooo...


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HBO? And reading the books didn't ring your bells about sexism in Westeros? When daughters AND sons are forced to marry against their will? When in the Riverruns pretty much every girl has been raped, or so said Jaime? When Randyll Tarly says that Brienne could learn to behave like a proper lady after a good old rape?

I get it. Women being treated like objects offend people. But in Westeros, women were treated like properties.

There's a difference between women being treated like objects in Westeros and the show itself treating women like sex objects, as well as using rape as flippantly as many people feel they have been -- the latter point is up for debate, the former really isn't. The show is full of female flesh that serves no purpose whatsoever other than objectifying the women for the presumed viewing pleasure of the audience.

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Seeing shirtless Theon was so depressing to me. Even after he's being flayed, tortured, castrated and malnourished he has a better body than me



Guess he took a page out of the Jennifer Lawrence "Don't go anorexic for a role" book, which I applaud, actually


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Hi guys.

Idk if this has been brought up yet (just signed up), but does anyone have a clue how they are going to pull off the moondoor situation? Because they've shown no hints of a singer so far at the Eyrie, and the show has already disposed of Marillion sooo...

No clue. That was part of the reason I thought Only Cat might be delayed until 4x10, since the show hasn't introduced a patsy yet and there's no Marillion.

Someone suggested using Mord, which would be an elegant solution, but I don't even know if that actor's back for Season 4.

It could just be some random guard.

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Hi guys.

Idk if this has been brought up yet (just signed up), but does anyone have a clue how they are going to pull off the moondoor situation? Because they've shown no hints of a singer so far at the Eyrie, and the show has already disposed of Marillion sooo...

I guess next episode we'll find out.

I believe they'll create someone to take the blame, maybe a bard.

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I've actually been fairly tolerant of a lot of the changes they've made to the series up until now. Tonight's episode just made me cringe though. Repeatedly.

To each their own. Hopefully they redeem themselves next ep for you with Only Cat

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There had to have been a reason for the Oberyn and Vary's conversation. I think this is laying the ground work for


Dorne supporting Aegon. They don't like to keep anything off screen for too long or to blind side the audience.


It's probably why they had Yara attack the dreadfort too. I thought the Ironbank scene was very good and the shot


of the Titan of bravos looked perfect and the overview of Bravos looked cool. I wish I could use Google streetview on it.


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:rolleyes: seriously. If you hate something like this adaptation, why are you watching it? There are readers of the series who have chosen not to watch the show and by proxy, they wont bitch about it. It would be a good idea to take a leaf from them so those of us enjoying ourselves dont have to hear this noise.

Did I say that I hate the whole series?

I've enjoyed it a lot for the most part, even though the deviations from the books seem to be getting progressively worse with each season. There have been episodes that have left me disappointed or underwhelmed by certain scenes, but this is the first episode to rub me the wrong way so much that i'd go as far as to say I hated it.

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