Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP406 Discussion

Recommended Posts

People hate on the Craster's filler (which I disagree with), but if Yara goes back to Pyke for the Moot, now THAT is waste of time filler in my mind. Should of just kept her there and started the Greyjoy arc sooner or let her get caught sooner. Having her go all the way there to go all the way back. I just don't get what that accomplishes.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How the heck did Varys find "residue" of the strangler potion on the stones in Sansa's necklace? Did he have a microscope or other sophisticated lab equipment, or does the strangler potion have a particular color?

Varys sniffs the necklace. "Iocaine powder, I'd stake my life on it."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to canvass some support here;

Does anyone else think that Tywin is going to sell Jorah out with the letter he's sending to Meereen?

100%

They showed Oberyn's reaction to the fact that he was formerly spying on her, but I'm sure Tywin picked up on that as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So did LF throw the necklace back on the boat so that someone would be able to retrieve it and use it as evidence to frame Tyrion and Sansa?

Good question. They also knew Dontos took Sansa and I have to think LF knew they would be spotted so I would lean he did it on purpose. Either way we the viewer are definitely supposed to be very aware he put it back on the boat. I was surprised people forgot, the way it was shot made it pretty obvious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion probably the best written and acted episode of the season thus far. Very, very good.



Positive stand-outs:



-Davos being awesome, per usual (really hoping we get his "Vengeance" speech to the Manderlys at some point)



-Oberyn being awesome, per usual (he's been so pitch-perfect in the role that all my initial casting concerns seem like a distant memory)



-Varys once again given considerable screen-time (have to think his conversation with Oberyn is a big hint towards Aegon/Jon Connington next season)



-A great trial scene all-around, with Peter Dinklage absolutely nailing it



-Hizdahr being a potentially more well-rounded character than he is in the book. Could really stand to help make a lot of Dany's decisions even more easy to scrutinize.



-Alfie as Reek and Iwan as Ramsey, both perfect.



Questionable moments:



-Mark Gatiss' acting was terrific as the lead Iron Banker/Tycho, but it didn't feel "Braavosi" to me. No accent, no ethnic distinction from Westeros, no flair. Felt like the scene could've taken place anywhere really.



-Stannis' negative qualities still being played up while positive attributes almost non-existant. Episode 9 can't come soon enough.



-The uneventful fight at the Dreadfort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So did LF throw the necklace back on the boat so that someone would be able to retrieve it and use it as evidence to frame Tyrion and Sansa?

Apparently.

Understanding that those passing judgement aren't at all concerned about justice, I'm confused as to what events are supposed to have transpired. Wherever Sansa and Dontos met up with LittleFinger, it took them hours to get there - yet apparently they were still close enough that Dontos's body was sure to be discovered.

Beyond that, what conclusion is one to draw from a dead Dontos with a crossbow bolt sticking out of his face and a poison necklace laying on his torso. That Sansa betrayed and killed him, then betrayed Tyrion and incriminated herself by leaving Joffrey's murder weapon on Dontos's corpse?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So are they simply excluding the part about the goat herder"s child and replacing it with goats? Or was that just a prelude to the child later being killed?

I think it's just a prelude. Lull Dany and viewers into thinking that the next time someone brings bones wrapped in a cloth before her, it's just another sheep -- when in reality, it's a child.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yarra is the Locke of this ep.

Worse as at least you can argue Locke was a red herring, and at minimum it serves as a good moment to show off what Bran can do inside Hodor, and that what he did was REALLY not ok. It had a point from a character perspective along with the red herring.

THIS seemingly has no value. Only thing you could say is it shows how broken Theon is, but I felt we already knew this and there are other ways to drive that point home again if they felt it needed to.

Its not even because she failed that the scene bothers me. Her not taking Theon is fine, its her seemingly only being in the dreadfort for 5 minutes, failing and then seemingly just giving up and going home that makes it seem pointless. If she got captured it wouldn't of been as bad, if she took Theon for a spell (and Ramsey hunts them down) it would of be a big deviation, but could of served lots of character moments and been entertaining. Hell if she just stays in the north because she plans to try again it is more satisfying.

If all that happens was her going all the way to the Dreadfort, spend five minutes, get bit by Theon, then just give up and go back to Pyke to get back on track for the moot. THAT to me is a waste of time. Either should of kept her in Pyke and had her in the moot, or you remove her from the moot and keep her in the north. She can't go back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's just a prelude. Lull Dany and viewers into thinking that the next time someone brings bones wrapped in a cloth before her, it's just another sheep -- when in reality, it's a child.

My thoughts as well, felt like a trick to book readers who were expecting it and regular viewers.

It seems they are starting this arc with Dany that being a queen is a LOT harder then she thought it would be. And starting with just the goat plays into this. She seems pleased as punch with herself and comes off thinking this will be cake. Then Hiz comes in and drops her down a peg, and her frustration knowing she has another 200 people to go starts the road that this will not be easy at all and she is going to have to make compromises she does not like. It all gets worse when Drogon finally kills the kid and she is forced to chain the dragons up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember people wondering in the preview thread whether we would see Tywin eat because of the poison theory. So we got a scene of him CLEARLY eating, drinking and swallowing. Maybe we will get proof the Red Viper got his revenge afterall?

Also, noticed the bells going off when Tywin started drinking the wine. Varys in season 2 stating bells signal the death of a king. Granted, Tywin isn't the king in name, but he is the real power behind the throne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Outside the Reek stuff, the Dreadfort sidestory was just poorly done, but i'm relieved at the very least that Yara didn't end up captured and that theories of her being fArya or married to Ramsay for control of the Iron Islands can be put to a rest. Hopefully she goes to Deepwood Motte or back home to Pyke. I also disagree with the criticism that she just left Theon there after building up the rescue plot. She had no idea Theon was that far broken. To her, Theon, or at least the Theon she knew, is dead. So I don't mind her leaving him. What stupid is the notion they could get into the Dreadfort so easily and then simply waltz back out and that Ramsay would let that happen.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hope they make Salladhor stay loyal in the show :D I mean the reason he leaves Stannis is money right?

From a thousand pages ago, but I still like the idea of Salladhor being used as "Aurane Waters" stand-in. So a Stannis betrayal of him could work in that way. Runs over to Cersei. Promptly betrays her too.

Edited by ambi76

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What did everyone think of the Oberyn/Varys discussion, particularly the fact that Varys was hinting about his desire to sit on the throne?

Aegon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's just a prelude. Lull Dany and viewers into thinking that the next time someone brings bones wrapped in a cloth before her, it's just another sheep -- when in reality, it's a child.

I think it was similar in the books: she kept getting goatherds coming with their burnt animals, until one them wasn't an animal :(

Apparently.

Understanding that those passing judgement aren't at all concerned about justice, I'm confused as to what events are supposed to have transpired. Wherever Sansa and Dontos met up with LittleFinger, it took them hours to get there - yet apparently they were still close enough that Dontos's body was sure to be discovered.

Beyond that, what conclusion is one to draw from a dead Dontos with a crossbow bolt sticking out of his face and a poison necklace laying on his torso. That Sansa betrayed and killed him, then betrayed Tyrion and incriminated herself by leaving Joffrey's murder weapon on Dontos's corpse?

I had the impression that it was LF's plan to cement the argument against Sansa, effectively making her his hostage. If there was any doubt she was involved in Joffrey's death, she could escape the Vale. If she leaves the Vale now, she faces certain death as a traitor. Her hands are tied, she is imprisoned.

I liked the episode a lot with the exception of Yara's scene. I am one of those that enjoyed Craster' keep as it provided 2 interesting developments: Bran making Hodor kill, and Jon shining as a leader which will help his transition to Lord Commander.

Yara/Asha scene basically told us that Theon is totally Reeked. Perhaps it will make sense that she decides to go for the throne herself in the Kingsmoot, seeing as how her brother is lost.

I do like this season's long sequences of one storyline/location.

Edit: The way Oberyn is killing it acting-wise I think at the end of ep.8 the devastation of the Unsullied might even equal RW or Ned's death.

Edited by Mel_Rose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You just described every HBO show since the Sopranos. Sex sells. It always has and it always will; until human beings stop having it. There is nothing particularly objectifying about it.

This would hold more weight if the men in the show were as objectified and sexualised as the women - after all, women watch TV, women watch Game of Thrones, I'd be surprised if the audience ratio wasn't around 50/50 male-female. So why are women naked for no good reason, frequently depicted as having sex or being raped in the background of unrelated scenes - when the male characters, when they are focused on in a sex scene, are usually clothed or covered in some way? I can count the instances of full-frontal male nudity on the fingers of one hand. The same cannot be said of the female nudity.

I'm no prude. I have no issue with sex, nudity or sex scenes. My problem is how disproportionate it all is. I'm equally interested in hot naked ladies and hot naked men, but on GoT I notice the former is greatly favoured over the latter. So the problem here isn't that sex sells - tell us something we don't know - but that, for GoT, naked women sell. Sexualised women sell. Sex sells, but mostly when we're catering to what men want.

I can take or leave the nudity, but if they're going to have so much of it, at least make it equal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guess we're gonna see Moat Cailin early.

Since the facts in book 5 are supposed to happen at the same time as the ones in book 4, it doesn`t seem too much of a rush. Except that Moat Cailin is supposed to be undermanned because Victarion left for the kingsmoot. Sending Theon to deal with Victarion seems like a stretch, wonder how they`ll pull it off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, what are everyone's favourite episodes after this week's cracker?



Mine are:


1. The Rains of Castamere


2. Blackwater


3. The Laws of Gods and Men


4. Kissed by Fire


5. Baelor


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×