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[Book Spoilers] EP406 Discussion

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I have noticed a few people say the same thing that oberyn should have declared champion for tyrion. To me that would have been too quick as I believe oberyn is a on few more council meetings and he meets tyrion in his cell to speak with him. I think they did it just right.

I just think that doing it this way, people now have an entire week to think back to all those trailers with Oberyn fighting and realize that he's the champion. A lot of non book readers will probably realize it. Kind of ruins the surprise.

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I just think that doing it this way, people now have an entire week to think back to all those trailers with Oberyn fighting and realize that he's the champion. A lot of non book readers will probably realize it. Kind of ruins the surprise.

What trailers?

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Also, given that we had a 20 page thread last week debating/disputing Emilia Clarke's range as an actress I really feel like I have to say she was real solid during the Hizdhar speech. Stiff Upper Lip in words and speech, trying to stay on message, but her eyes told a very different story. Dany was rattled, underneath, and we all saw it.



She showed Dany's mask slipping and it was really, really good. And we could feel the exasperation and the "aw FUCK, there's 212 more of these?" in her voice even when those exact words were left unsaid. I am quite pleased.


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IMDB says Halfdor Julius Bjornsson

It also lists him in the cast of The Mountain and the Viper, but not in Mockingbird. Now sometimes people are left out in very recent or future episodes so he still might make an appearance next week.

Well he's no Conan Stevens but, I'm sure he'll do just fine.

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Any word on who's going to be playing the Mountain? I just hope it's not the guy from season 2.

It's not the guy from S2. It's a new actor (I don't remember his name). You can actually see a shot of him in the preview for next week episode.

Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson.

Based on those 2 seconds, he looks AWESOME. At first glance I thought he was the original one (Conan Stevens).

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I thought Varys answer , this:

Tyrion asks Varys if he has forgotten his promise to remember that Tyrion saved the city from Stannis;Varys says that he never forgets a thing.

...oddly vague , as if he ducked accusing Tyrion of anything.

I would have look in the book to see what Varys says at the trial, since his actions are Tyrion friendly later.

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The Fu? Dontos was in the middle of the ocean, how did they find him?

i thought he was still in the boat... surely that would have drifted to shore

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I do hope for the return of Kevan Lannister, and we will have Qyburn. Maybe that will be all, but I hope for a possibly merged Rowan/Redwyne Tyrell bannerman, even though I doubt it.

After this episode Kevan is definitely out, IMHO. It has been stressed that there is nobody among the Lannisters to keep the things together should anything happen to Tywin, and Lancel has been namedropped. IMHO, he is the Lannister who is going to show up and take over some of Kevan's role, while the rest will go to Jaime and Pycelle. Jaime is technically a member of the council and is going to actually sit there finally, and they may put Loras there too (briefly). No need to introduce Kevan when they have already established characters with not enough to do.

Early in ASOS when Tywin shows up to be hand and Sort Out Business (including 'shipping Cersei/Balon LOL) Mace is Robin Quivers to Tywin's Howard Stern, laughing loudest at his jokes and praising his every suggestion as brilliant.

It's how Lord Oaf rolls

And also, grabbing honors, lands and titles like nobody's business, as Tyrion noted. Tywin wouldn't have been giving him all these concessions if he didn't feel that he had to. Book Mace was successfully grasping, and we don't know how sincere the QoT's disparagement of him was. She was trying to win Sansa's trust, after all. He didn't cover himself with glory during the Rebellion, but IIRC Connington did have Reach lords and men in his army and nobody asked for Tyrell troops before the Trident. I'd also guess that they were investing not just Storm's End, but much of the Stormlands, so that Robert couldn't get any more troops from there.

In the show, it wouldn't make sense for the QoT to abandon her descendants in KL if Mace is a complete oaf and Marge's position hasn't even been made official. In the books, she only left after her marriage to Tommen happened.

Re: Dany and the goatherd, it has been established in the books that Dany compensates people for livestock allegedly eaten by dragons. Here they showed her gaffe of offering thrice the price of the animals (quite subtle, with Barristan's understated reaction), which will lead to her being inundated with fraudulent claims.

Re: Hazzea, in the books it isn't even known if she was murdered by Drogon. He was seen in the area, but Nobody witnessed her death and it happened when Sons of the Harpy were alteady active and had a reason to blacken Dany's image among the farmers. I imagine that they will leave it nice and ambiguous in the show, too.

From TPaTQ we know that wild dragons didn't attack humans unless provoked or aroused by bloodshed.

Edited by Maia

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I thought Varys answer , this:

Tyrion asks Varys if he has forgotten his promise to remember that Tyrion saved the city from Stannis;Varys says that he never forgets a thing.

...oddly vague , as if he ducked accusing Tyrion of anything.

I would have look in the book to see what Varys says at the trial, since his actions are Tyrion friendly later.

The show is just making it clear that Varys will help Tyrion. I'd be interested in seeing if during the "Previously On..." they include this scene before Ep. 10 starts.

Edited by When Harry met Sansa

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The weirdest bit was Sansa's necklace. We saw Littlefinger crush Sansa's necklace, so how the hell did Pycell get it or one that looked exactly like it? In that Rolling Stone interview with GRRM there was this:

That killing happens early in this fourth season. The books, of course, are well past the poisoning of King Joffrey.
In the books – and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal – the conclusion that the careful reader draws is that Joffrey was killed by the Queen of Thorns, using poison from Sansa's hairnet, so that if anyone did think it was poison, then Sansa would be blamed for it. Sansa had certainly good reason for it.

Doesn't it sound like GRRM is hinting there's more to Joffrey's poisoning than we suspect? Last week when Cersei asked Margaery if she still wanted to be Queen I thought, what the fuck? Wouldn't it be a real pisser if Cersei was in on the poisoning? It's a crazy idea I know, but Tyrion says, "if there's one person I'm sure of that didn't kill Joffrey it's Cersei." That's just too good of a line to not be true. Oh the irony! Think about it. Cersei was losing control of Joffrey, and there's also this from the Rolling Stones interview:

I don't know if somebody like Jaime or Cersei can be redeemed. Cersei's a great character – she's like Lady Macbeth.
Well, redeemed in whose eyes? She'll never be redeemed in the eyes of some. She's a character who's very protective of her children. You can argue, well, does she genuinely love her children, or does she just love them because they're her children? There's certainly a great level of narcissism in Cersei.

I would argue that Cersei viewed Joffrey as "hers", and when he wasn't "hers" anymore, she wanted him dead.

Edited by Feather Crystal

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omg, i could not believe this ep! frking amazing!!!!!



i will admit right away that davos/sallador and reek/ramsay scenes could have been skipped, but i think the Trial just made up for all of it! Peter dinklage has to get a nomination at least for his performance...and just all of it, jaime/tywin even!



like i loved the set up from davos at the beginning about tywin's possible demise



i loved the small council scene and tywin setting his gaze on dany! im betting his message is to Jorah and will get intercepted and boom, exile the exiled! :laugh:



i didnt get oberyn/varys scene, but i see the other thread for it, will check it out there



i even enjoyed the yara/ramsay fight sequence, i guess the point of it was to show Yara has truly given up on Theon and build up for why she feels more entitled to be the next Queen...meh



the trial, it was better, faster paced and more dramatic than even i could have hoped! truly beautiful work from everyone! my new favorite scene after the sack of astapor!


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Yep, he just found the perfect eff-U to Tywin.

tywin is afraid that jaimie will be chosen by tyrion (and will accept) and that that's the end of the lannister line

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omg, i could not believe this ep! frking amazing!!!!!

i will admit right away that davos/sallador and reek/ramsay scenes could have been skipped, but i think the Trial just made up for all of it! Peter dinklage has to get a nomination at least for his performance...and just all of it, jaime/tywin even!

like i loved the set up from davos at the beginning about tywin's possible demise

i loved the small council scene and tywin setting his gaze on dany! im betting his message is to Jorah and will get intercepted and boom, exile the exiled! :laugh:

i didnt get oberyn/varys scene, but i see the other thread for it, will check it out there

i even enjoyed the yara/ramsay fight sequence, i guess the point of it was to show Yara has truly given up on Theon and build up for why she feels more entitled to be the next Queen...meh

the trial, it was better, faster paced and more dramatic than even i could have hoped! truly beautiful work from everyone! my new favorite scene after the sack of astapor!

I thought the whole point of the Yara/Theon scene was to show how far gone Theon was as Reek, being he was too afraid to leave with her.

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In the books, Dany started paying for livestock eaten by the dragons and then a bunch of people start claiming that the dragons ate their livestock. It seemed likely that some of those people were lying, but Dany didn't know who so she kept paying out. Given that backdrop, it wasn't clear if Drogon had really killed a child or if the farmer was lying to get the payout. I assumed the show wouldn't have time to set up that uncertainty, but it is neat that they made time for it.



So I guess all that blood on Ramsay was from happy sex scratches? Ramsay happily joining a melee covered in blood and unprotected was kinda awesome. He's emphatically a different kind of crazed evil than Joffrey.



I would have preferred if Davos had caught up with Sallador in a bar rather than a hot tub with naked women, but oh well. The scene did draw my attention to the similarities between Davos' relationships with Sallador and with Stannis. Davos likes both men, doesn't like some of their choices but he's pretty easygoing and nonjudgemental about it.


Edited by Janicia

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I thought the whole point of the Yara/Theon scene was to show how far gone Theon was as Reek, being he was too afraid to leave with her.

yes thats what i meant, sorry was tooo excited! her claiming "Theon is dead" goes to show she believes it figuratively....that is completely beyond hope...and anyone would seeing Reek in that situation, fighting against freedom, running back himself to his kennel...

i forgot to mention one thing....HOW EPIC WAS DROGON!!!!! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

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I love those little moments this season when we see someone talking about Dany or dragons and camera gives a close up on Oberyn's face. :D It is great watching it as a book reader and will be great for Unsullied to rewatch a few years from now when they will now what Oberyn knew. :D


Edited by Volverin

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So, apparently I'm not the only one who thought there was "little and less" going on last night:

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/game-of-thrones-the-seinfeldian-trial-of-tyrion-lannister/362034/

Well as the answer to their question will soon be seen to be "no", I'm not sure they are really on your side

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In the books, Dany started paying for livestock eaten by the dragons and then a bunch of people start claiming that the dragons ate their livestock. It seemed likely that some of those people were lying, but Dany didn't know who so she kept paying out. Given that backdrop, it wasn't clear if Drogon had really killed a child or if the farmer was lying to get the payout. I assumed the show wouldn't have time to set up that uncertainty, but it is neat that they made time for it.

I'm assuming the scene from this episode is set-up to having a bunch of people demanding payment, and it's going to culminate with a dead child. Dany needs a reason to lock up the dragons.

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