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[Book Spoilers] EP406 Discussion

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I get that, but slavery is a real issue in the show and many on this blog want to 'justify' all sorts of things that happen in this narrative with the line 'it was like that in the Middle Ages' (which I find dubious, at best, but no matter at present).

And narrative exists to teach humans how to be human and what to do and what not to do. So what the show and book narrative teaches us couldn't be more important.

Also, lots of people want to condemn Dany for her mistakes while they redeem everyone from Jaime to the Hound to Stannis.

I think discussing all of this is relevant on the main threads.

I agree there isn't anything wrong with making a post in General ASOIAF as well. I'm only saying this particular thread is discussing the episode.

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I'm probably in the.minority but I thought this was a weak episode. Iron Bank scene was...well, flat and boring to me. Asha at the Dreadfort seemed pointless and acchieved next to nothing save showing the further deterioration or Reek, which could.have been done in another way. I suppose if its to set Asha up for.something else then fair enough but right now.it feels wasted. Maybe just because it was such a mystery and so hyped up, maybe not :dunno:

Meereen wasnt bad. Liked that Hizdhar looks like he is going to be more fleshed out than in the books. So are we not getting Hazzea till E10 or.something then?

Trial was the highlight, but couldnt make up for the rest of the episode imo

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iirc, LF wanted to reveal Sansa during the wedding to Harry, after Tyrion was dead(or declared dead)and the Lannister out of power.

about Varys picking up Sansan, it would have been hard too, since they were "close" out of side, in private, in public they were different.

Yeah, hard to know what Varys knows. But if Varys doesn't know that Sandor had a thing for Sansa, he certainly would never think that Sandor might be wandering around with Arya. I'm just saying that even somebody who knew that Sandor liked Sansa would think Sandor had just found some random girl (possibly one that reminded him of Sansa) rather than think "oh gosh, he must have found that kid that most likely died a year ago and hates him". Also, the innkeeper and his daughter probably heard Sandor's claim to be sleeping with Arya, which entirely eliminates the mystery of her presence.

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I don't think that anyone ever found that Sandor had a soft spot for Sansa.It's not as if the Hound would talk for such a matter to anyone.Actually i don't believe that anyone would have thought Sandor having a soft spot for anything except from killing.Therefore drawing conclusions or suspecting that he's escorting Sansa is not very possible.


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That's a good point about Arya and the Hound being so visible. I just got carried along by their awesome road trip but now that I think about it, I can see both sides (it's so obvious! vs. who would know or care?). Surprising Tywin did not put a bow in this loose thread and send out an envoy--"I'm looking for a highborn girl of 10, potty-mouthed rapscallion, horse-faced, likes to stab things."


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I'm probably in the.minority but I thought this was a weak episode. Iron Bank scene was...well, flat and boring to me. Asha at the Dreadfort seemed pointless and acchieved next to nothing save showing the further deterioration or Reek, which could.have been done in another way. I suppose if its to set Asha up for.something else then fair enough but right now.it feels wasted. Maybe just because it was such a mystery and so hyped up, maybe not :dunno:

Meereen wasnt bad. Liked that Hizdhar looks like he is going to be more fleshed out than in the books. So are we not getting Hazzea till E10 or.something then?

Trial was the highlight, but couldnt make up for the rest of the episode imo

Disagree here. Davos' speech to actually win some coin from the bankers was damn good.

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Disagree here. Davos' speech to actually win some coin from the bankers was damn good.

Yes, the scene was a huge set-up for Davos to win back Stannis' trust. Stannis now knows not to kill/indungeonate (I think I made that up) Davos, and trust him to go forth and do what we all expect Davos to do.

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Eye Of The Beholder, my friend.

Eye Of The Beholder. :devil:

I'm not commenting on the actress, she's a total milf (assuming she's had kids). It's the zombie+facial scars aspect. But then again all the facial scars from the books see to clean up quickly in the show :crying:

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Further, Sandor was kind of creepy with Sansa - the idea that he might pick up a young sexual object is also entirely plausible. The Mountain's men were very confused about why Sandor had deserted and what he was up to, but they didn't think it was weird at all for him to have a young female companion. People don't expect Sandor to serve as escort for noble ladies

But Sandor sure as hell would pick up a ransom-able young girl, and just who might be wandering the country side unaccounted for?

Varys was keeping that secret to himself.

Edited by boojam

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That's what I'm thinking, boojam. SOMEBODY in Westeros has got to know Arya is alive and out there. I just can't remember how that plays into the fAyra plot later. Or perhaps it doesn't. It gets kinda blurry as of book 5.


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Yes, to several above... there is no way Varys got reports about the Hound without reports about the girl with him.



And backing up, there is no way that Varys' little birds didn't take note of the entourage that left KL with Yoren....and there is no way Varys didn't know about the pursuit of Gendry/death of Yoren/fate or the rest of the entourage.



And backing up, there is no way that Varys' little birds didn't scope out Arya in the crowd at the Sept of Baelor, and even before that, wandering aound Flea Bottom.


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That's what I'm thinking, boojam. SOMEBODY in Westeros has got to know Arya is alive and out there. I just can't remember how that plays into the fAyra plot later. Or perhaps it doesn't. It gets kinda blurry as of book 5.

In the books there is so much chaos on the country side that , as George paints it, and I don't remember them running into any high born, so it is not surprising that Arya goes unnoticed.

Well actually , you know, Arya has only three chapters in Feast and only 2(!) in Dance.

(I am not counting Mercy yet.)

Those 5 chapters were my favorites in novels 4 and 5.

They are not short, but I was intrigued every moment, everything seemed off center, and Arya was growing and changing.

The show could do well with Arya's Braavos stuff.

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Yes, to several above... there is no way Varys got reports about the Hound without reports about the girl with him.

And backing up, there is no way that Varys' little birds didn't take note of the entourage that left KL with Yoren....and there is no way Varys didn't know about the pursuit of Gendry/death of Yoren/fate or the rest of the entourage.

And backing up, there is no way that Varys' little birds didn't scope out Arya in the crowd at the Sept of Baelor, and even before that, wandering aound Flea Bottom.

There is. Varys and his littler birds are not omnipresent.

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There is. Varys and his littler birds are not omnipresent.

Varys knows about the girl travelling with the Hound, and he isn't an idiot. And he is certainly omnipresent with his little birds regarding what happens in KL.

PS Littlefinger likely knows as well.

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There is. Varys and his littler birds are not omnipresent.

Agreed. Even if they were, I'm not sure that they would know that the kid with the Hound is Arya. Just that he has someone tagging along with him. Polliver didn't recognize her until she said that she would pick her teeth with Needle. Whats one more ragged little kid out of all the thousands displaced by the fighting?

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The Trail (especial Tyrion´s final speach) and the Reek bath scene where awesome... the rest of the episode was ok...


Edited by Jackie Coogan

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That's what I'm thinking, boojam. SOMEBODY in Westeros has got to know Arya is alive and out there. I just can't remember how that plays into the fAyra plot later. Or perhaps it doesn't. It gets kinda blurry as of book 5.

In the books and show, Berric Dondarrion and crew knew she was alive and looking to go to Riverrun (before the Red Wedding).

In AFFC, Brienne hears rumors that The Hound was with a high-born girl (whom she assumes is Sansa) when she is looking at the Saltpans. Septon Merribald specifically corrects Brienne and says that the Hound had Arya, not Sansa (he helps the smallfolk that help Dondarrion).

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OK, that too. But shirtlessness is so common and expected on GoT that I no longer even notice it :)

It's possible, of course, but why include something that would be so completely lost on show viewers who haven't read the books? He might have been thinking of Cersei and Jaime, Lysa and Littlefinger, even Shae and Tyrion (show-wise).

I just thought the look on Oberyn's face hinted at that... But I could be reaching. Every time Oberyn is onscreen, I am waiting for someone to mention Elia.

And although i have never thought about it, I agree with those that think that Varys is aware of Sansa's whereabouts and is keeping it quiet for now (in show and books). Keeping her undetected in the Vale means she can be of use to him in the future (he just has to deal with LF), however if she is captured and executed by the Lannisters, the North is lost to the Boltons (as far as Varys is concerned- assuming he doesn't know about Bran and Rickon).

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Varys has been using an extended network of spies indeed.But this doesn't mean that he knows everything.How the hell the wretched kids of Flea Bottom that are part of his "little birds" where supposed to recognize Arya for example?Or any other of his spies and informants?It's not as if Arya has some unique features that make her immediately recognizable and they can't exactly google her name,check her facebook or instagram to get some pictures of her.


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Tywin going to rat Jorah out?

didn't think about that untill you said it, but it makes perfect sense... what better way to disrupt a young girl with two advisors!

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