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[Book Spoilers] EP406 Discussion


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"It was hilarious, but I was actually a little annoyed when he didn't stand when Tywin entered the room in the Small Council scene. It seemed a little discourteous and passive aggressive to me..."

It was meant to be, he hates Tywin and has no problem showing it!

I know, but somehow I would respect him more for directly confronting Tywin vs. acting out this way. May be projecting from real life...

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I hope those who always complain about Dany being perfect and flawless are happier now, because she looked like a total idiot in this episode. The son of a slavemaster claims his father was totally innocent in the deaths of the children and she believes him instantly because slave masters are such honest people who always say the truth, right? Giving in so easily will make her look weak and manipulable to the Meereense nobles.

Then the goat herder says Drogon killed all his livestock when we clearly saw that he only took single goat the rest got away. Of course Dany doesn't question this and promises him three times the worth of all his animals in gold. Barristan gives her a look like 'Are you stupid?'. She never asks for proof. How did the goat herder get the bones when Drogon carried his prey off into the far away mountains? Now when the word spreads that Dany is paying gold for animal bones, people can just burn their livestock, bring it to her and make some big cash (I think that's what happens in ADWD, correct me if I'm wrong), it was a really dumb move. They are really showing her as a bad and naive ruler from the moment she sits on the bench.

LOL, I agree. I like Dany but they portray her naive and already regretting her decisions. I would probably take my people and sail to Westeros in her place. She's staying though. I respect that.

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I don't fully understand the Varys / Oberyn scene. It seemed like they were tentatively reaching for a mutually beneficial arrangement with each other, but it didn't get to the point of specifics. Varys harped on class distinctions, I guess to differentiate himself from the Kings Landing crowd that Oberyn despises; and Oberyn was trying to figure out what makes Varys tick. Have we seen Varys tell somebody that he didn't trust them before? What was the point of saying that to Oberyn?

I thought it was about telling the audience, not Oberyn, that Varys did trust Tyrion - (basing this on the wizard in the box)- and that despite the evidence he would give at the trial, he would help Tyrion in the future. Also echoed by his answer to Tyrion - I remember everything

Edited by Xyzzy
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Was very hard to believe that the Shae-character from the show could really be so stupid as to not understand Tyrion sent her off for good reason. All this to get revenge? The character was always kind of stupid but I'm bummed they're now trying to course-correct into the book's ending. You could also say that Shae is playing a double-game trying to keep Tyrion alive... but again of late they've been leaving things pretty unsaid. Hoping they don't try to fit it into the book-Shae-plot.



The trial was ok but the "trial by combat" moment seems odd - unless I missed something they chose to have no setup of that moment that would make Tyrion look less crazy/stupid? I guess you could assume he talked to the Viper off-screen, but more likely they'll tack on that conversation after the fact, along with a re-introduction to Clegane.


Edited by eumaies
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the trial was ok but the "trial by combat" moment seems odd - unless I missed something they chose to have no setup of that moment that would make Tyrion look less crazy/stupid? I guess you could assume he talked to the Viper off-screen, but more likely they'll tack on that conversation after the fact, along with a re-introduction to Clegane.

He's not crazy or stupid, he's just snapped, because having Shae come out to throw him under the bus is unnecessarily (since he's already framed). It's not about keeping up the appearance of the trial, having Shae come in is just insult to injury, making it truly personal. If the trial is burying him, Shae's testimony is Cersei pissing on his grave afterwards.

Now it's about Fucking Up Dad's Master Plan On Principle (and out of spite) as much as it is Trying To Survive.

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He's not crazy or stupid, he's just snapped, because having Shae come out to throw him under the bus is unnecessarily (since he's already framed). It's not about keeping up the appearance of the trial, having Shae come in is just insult to injury, making it truly personal. If the trial is burying him, Shae's testimony is Cersei pissing on his grave afterwards.

Now it's about Fucking Up Dad's Master Plan On Principle (and out of spite) as much as it is Trying To Survive.

All of which would be great except it's a reach to assume he even knows about Dad's Master Plan.

I mean sure, you could assume he's thinking all that, but any kind of evidence of what he was thinking would've made for a smarter Tyrion, which was a nice aspect of the trial in the books - the combination of his emotion and his intelligence. The latter is kind of missing in this scene/episode, though I guess they can fill it in later.

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All of which would be great except it's a reach to assume he even knows about Dad's Master Plan.

I mean sure, you could assume he's thinking all that, but any kind of evidence of what he was thinking would've made for a smarter Tyrion, which was a nice aspect of the trial in the books - the combination of his emotion and his intelligence. The latter is kind of missing in this scene/episode, though I guess they can fill it in later.

Well, he doesn't know what specifically the plan is, but he does know that there IS one because Jaime pretty much told him there was, and that Tyrion's role in it is supposed to be roll over and play dead. That's enough for him to know he can fuck it up and how to.

Edited by Sour Robin
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Was very hard to believe that the Shae-character from the show could really be so stupid as to not understand Tyrion sent her off for good reason. All this to get revenge? The character was always kind of stupid but I'm bummed they're now trying to course-correct into the book's ending. You could also say that Shae is playing a double-game trying to keep Tyrion alive... but again of late they've been leaving things pretty unsaid. Hoping they don't try to fit it into the book-Shae-plot.

The trial was ok but the "trial by combat" moment seems odd - unless I missed something they chose to have no setup of that moment that would make Tyrion look less crazy/stupid? I guess you could assume he talked to the Viper off-screen, but more likely they'll tack on that conversation after the fact, along with a re-introduction to Clegane.

Tyrion is clever but his tongue betrays him and now that's got him in trouble again

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Was very hard to believe that the Shae-character from the show could really be so stupid as to not understand Tyrion sent her off for good reason. All this to get revenge? The character was always kind of stupid but I'm bummed they're now trying to course-correct into the book's ending. You could also say that Shae is playing a double-game trying to keep Tyrion alive... but again of late they've been leaving things pretty unsaid. Hoping they don't try to fit it into the book-Shae-plot.

The trial was ok but the "trial by combat" moment seems odd - unless I missed something they chose to have no setup of that moment that would make Tyrion look less crazy/stupid? I guess you could assume he talked to the Viper off-screen, but more likely they'll tack on that conversation after the fact, along with a re-introduction to Clegane.

I think what happened was Shae was gonna leave, but Tywin ordered all ships to be seized afterJoff's death, and then Shae gets found.

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This episode combined both awesome and bad scenes. Yara's rescue attempt especially after her big speech was really awful. I did not mind the Craster's keep filler, but these added scenes were just extremely bad. Kudos to PD for his trial speech, he nailed it. I'm so excited for Tywin's death, I'm pretty sure that PD and CD last conversation is going to be a highlight of this season.


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Yara's night raid to Dreadfort was the most ridiculous thing ever done in the GoT.

Interesting - I didn't find it so. The Craster stuff last episode I found pointless and ridiculous, but the Dreadfort insert didn't bother me at all. It showed us how drastically Theon has been broken better (and more economically, time-wise) than could otherwise have been done in the show, as opposed to books.

I do agree that the dogs were a bit ridiculous - it's not like they are immortal :) It would be much more credible if the Ironborn ran because they've been found out and were obviously far outnumbered, once the garrison was awake and aware of their presence.

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Interesting - I didn't find it so. The Craster stuff last episode I found pointless and ridiculous, but the Dreadfort insert didn't bother me at all. It showed us how drastically Theon has been broken better (and more economically, time-wise) than could otherwise have been done in the show, as opposed to books.

I do agree that the dogs were a bit ridiculous - it's not like they are immortal :) It would be much more credible if the Ironborn ran because they've been found out and were obviously far outnumbered, once the garrison was awake and aware of their presence.

It wasn't just the dogs, but shirtless Ramsey Van Damme was just plain silly as well.

Personally, I'd preferred it if Yara had managed to get a skittish Theon back to the boats, with Ramsey and his men off in the distance in pursuit, only to have Theon step back announce to Yara and her men that Theon Greyjoy had died. He then runs back to his captors. It's the only way I can rationalize Yara actually leaving Theon behind after her big speeches and her boat trip around Westeros to save her brother. What they had onscreen, I just didn't buy.

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