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[Book Spoilers] EP406 Discussion

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Because they aren't in the show till next season and releasing casting details before the season ends will spoil the rest of the season for show-watchers?

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Interesting - I didn't find it so. The Craster stuff last episode I found pointless and ridiculous, but the Dreadfort insert didn't bother me at all. It showed us how drastically Theon has been broken better (and more economically, time-wise) than could otherwise have been done in the show, as opposed to books.

I do agree that the dogs were a bit ridiculous - it's not like they are immortal :) It would be much more credible if the Ironborn ran because they've been found out and were obviously far outnumbered, once the garrison was awake and aware of their presence.

Lol. The best killers in the Iron Islands armed with axes and shields are making a night raid and killing armed Dreadfort men but they are running on their heels from Ramsay's bitches.

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It wasn't just the dogs, but shirtless Ramsey Van Damme was just plain silly as well.

OK, that too. But shirtlessness is so common and expected on GoT that I no longer even notice it :)

I'm only on page 32, but I don't think it's been mentioned so I'll throw it out there..

I thought Varys stating that he has seen what desire can do, he was referring to Lyanna and Rhaegar...

It's possible, of course, but why include something that would be so completely lost on show viewers who haven't read the books? He might have been thinking of Cersei and Jaime, Lysa and Littlefinger, even Shae and Tyrion (show-wise).

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Lol. The best killers in the Iron Islands armed with axes and shields are making a night raid and killing armed Dreadfort men but they are running on their heels from Ramsay's bitches.

It's been said already, but I think how dangerous attack dogs are is being underestimated. Go for the throat, rip a chunk out of an ankle, latch on to the weapon hand, or go for the balls. All they really need to do is enough to divert the victim's attention for a second for a man to get a hit in. It's not about the dogs winning the fight by themselves, but about giving an advatage. The dogs aren't necessarily expected to survive just as long as they distract the enemy.

As importantly in those days animals are going to be much more feared by people. Even if you put the thought of rabies aside, without antibiotics a bite from a dog living in its own filth could easily turn septic and the victimelose a limb or die anyway from infection even if you escaped (although no idea if the writers would have considered that).

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Wow, Theon is broken. Great job, Alfie Allen.

Tonight Alfie Allen was great. The problem is that Peter Dinklage as always was magnificent in the trial scene and out-shined Allen's great performance.

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It's been said already, but I think how dangerous attack dogs are is being underestimated. Go for the throat, rip a chunk out of an ankle, latch on to the weapon hand, or go for the balls. All they really need to do is enough to divert the victim's attention for a second for a man to get a hit in. It's not about the dogs winning the fight by themselves, but about giving an advatage. The dogs aren't necessarily expected to survive just as long as they distract the enemy.

As importantly in those days animals are going to be much more feared by people. Even if you put the thought of rabies aside, without antibiotics a bite from a dog living in its own filth could easily turn septic and the victimelose a limb or die anyway from infection even if you escaped (although no idea if the writers would have considered that).

Theon's bite could be pretty dangerous to Yara as well; especially since he was probably kept in more filthy conditions than the dogs (I imagine that Ramsay took better care of his "girls", and at least had them taken outside the cages to relieve themselves). But the dogs never should have been a threat at all; if Yara & Co. hadn't just stood there gawking while Ramsay brandished the key and discussed his intentions. They had time to hurled a few axes and shoot some crossbow arrows at Ramsay's conveniently exposed chest and the dogs before he opened the latch.

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I think the child being roasted will come later. I don't think they'd cut that. They need an excuse to cage the dragons after all.

That is right. And in the book if I recall well it was common for people to come and ask compensation for the destruction that the dragons did, so they had to establish that somehow.

I don't think they will whitewash the dragons. After all they are beasts.

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I bet Balon Greyjoy is drinking in Pyke to all the guys and gals killed in the show while they're still alive in the books, Just chillin' in the castle waiting for the storm to kill him.

And since Mockingbird is the Ep 7, I already figured out this was gonna be the 'Only Cat' episode.

Man, look likes <z have :

E07 : Only Cat

E08 : Oberyn vs Gregor

E09 : The Battle at the Wall

E10 : Tywin dyin' + UnCat

We can say for sure this end of season is gonna kill the Internet.

You are right. Oberyn dying, the battle at the Wall and Tywin's death will bring the Internet down.

When UnCat makes her appearance we will have a global catastrophe. And the argument about whether Ned, Robb or anybody else who died until now in the TV series will start all over again for the TV viewers this time.

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In the books, the killing of livestock and Dany's payments came before the killing of a child. It's an escalation of violence by the dragons OR maybe the same level of violence but perceived differently because a child cannot be replaced with gold.

That is right. There was an escalation and until the child's bones are revealed they all think that he is just another sheepherder looking for money for his goats

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L







Theon's bite could be pretty dangerous to Yara as well; especially since he was probably kept in more filthy conditions than the dogs (I imagine that Ramsay took better care of his "girls", and at least had them taken outside the cages to relieve themselves). But the dogs never should have been a threat at all; if Yara & Co. hadn't just stood there gawking while Ramsay brandished the key and discussed his intentions. They had time to hurled a few axes and shoot some crossbow arrows at Ramsay's conveniently exposed chest and the dogs before he opened the latch.





LOL, good point about the Theon bite!



I felt it was a bit of a stand-off at that point when they are looking at each other. Carry on fighting and most of us will die on both sides or we both call it square, and live to fight another day. Ramsay's threat of the dogs just tipped them into retreat since the Ironborn had no reason to stay at that point anyway.

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Wow, I totally missed that interpretation. Varys may have been referring to the wizard-in-a-box scene in which Tyrion confided his suspicion that Cersei had tried to have him killed during the Battle of Blackwater and asked Varys to provide him with evidence. And then Tyrion talked about wanting to get revenge against the people who were trying to hurt him. Bringing that up would have been pretty damning and Varys kept quiet abut it.

Varys also could have mentioned that Tyrion fought with Joffrey over the siege preparations (Joffrey wanted to go after Robb instead of preparing for Stannis' attack). Varys probably also knew that Tyrion was blackmailing Lancel in season 2, but it isn't explicit in the show that Varys knew about that.

So Varys limited his testimony to things that were common knowledge on the Small Council; he kept back the things that nobody knew to ask him for.

I agree, and this is well-stated!

no My giant of Lannister line though..

It's almost similar to the above re: Varys' selective testimony. I do think the showrunners are trying to keep Shae a sympathetic character, for reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a scene where Shae tries to explain herself "I was only trying to save your life, they said you would go to the Wall..."

And then Tyrion can call her a lying whore again and get back to business.

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Does anyone find any relation with how the hound and arya are portrayed to that of dunk and egg? I dont know, to me it just seems very similar. Obviously the story is not evem close but the whole concept of a big knight with a small kid traveling along with him. Just a thought.

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Was very hard to believe that the Shae-character from the show could really be so stupid as to not understand Tyrion sent her off for good reason. All this to get revenge? The character was always kind of stupid but I'm bummed they're now trying to course-correct into the book's ending. You could also say that Shae is playing a double-game trying to keep Tyrion alive... but again of late they've been leaving things pretty unsaid. Hoping they don't try to fit it into the book-Shae-plot.

The trial was ok but the "trial by combat" moment seems odd - unless I missed something they chose to have no setup of that moment that would make Tyrion look less crazy/stupid? I guess you could assume he talked to the Viper off-screen, but more likely they'll tack on that conversation after the fact, along with a re-introduction to Clegane.

I think you missed the part where Jaime tells Tyrion to keep his mouth shut because he spoke with Tywin and found out his life is going to be spared and he will be sent to the wall. So now Tyrion knows Tywin's plan. He just gets to a breaking point with Shae and decides screw it, 'I've been treated unfairly by my father for my entire life and this is the last straw. Screw him. I'll risk my life to completely stick it to him and mess up whatever plan he has' He definitely hasn't talked with Oberyn yet because it hasn't been said that the Mountain will be the one chosen to fight against Tyrion. It's only when Oberyn finds out that the Mountain is the one picked that he decides to fight for Tyrion.

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You are right. Oberyn dying, the battle at the Wall and Tywin's death will bring the Internet down.

When UnCat makes her appearance we will have a global catastrophe. And the argument about whether Ned, Robb or anybody else who died until now in the TV series will start all over again for the TV viewers this time.

That actually hadn't occurred to me yet...IF UnCat appears...speculation of every single killed cast member returning to life will be unbearable through the duration of the series.

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Tyrion man I know you're upset but most of these spectators don't even have names. They ain't do shit to you man

They laughed at him.

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I think what happened was Shae was gonna leave, but Tywin ordered all ships to be seized afterJoff's death, and then Shae gets found.

Here is my theory, with less big-ticket unseen backstory, more King's Landingish treachery, and preserves the show's stupid whitewashing of Shae:

Bronn delivers the goods to Shae and tells her she should GTFO, courtesy Tyrion Lannister. What she thinks of this doesn't matter, although probably shocked/appalled/etc., considering how she acted (unreasonably, petulantly and unlikeably and with a bad accent) the last time she even thought he tried to buy her off, although by this time Tyrion has at least breached the notion.

Bronn promptly runs to Tywin (unlikely but quick-acting) or one of Cersei's little birds (much more likely but one degree of separation) to report that Tyrion still has a whore and she accepted a bag o' dragons to make like a tree and leave. Ambitious Bronn is seen as being useful to Top Lion Tywin, who seizes the hooker with the bag of gold and sees a brilliant closer for his show trial. Bronn knows Tyrion's value in KL is dropping fast, even before Joffrey's murder, and makes his move.

Well, I like it, anyway.

Oh, p.s. Looked for Bronn at the trial and could not find him, although his presence may not have been necessary. Still, it was weird.

Edited by Gran de Lys

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