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[Book Spoilers] EP406 Discussion


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iirc, LF wanted to reveal Sansa during the wedding to Harry, after Tyrion was dead(or declared dead)and the Lannister out of power.

about Varys picking up Sansan, it would have been hard too, since they were "close" out of side, in private, in public they were different.

Yeah, hard to know what Varys knows. But if Varys doesn't know that Sandor had a thing for Sansa, he certainly would never think that Sandor might be wandering around with Arya. I'm just saying that even somebody who knew that Sandor liked Sansa would think Sandor had just found some random girl (possibly one that reminded him of Sansa) rather than think "oh gosh, he must have found that kid that most likely died a year ago and hates him". Also, the innkeeper and his daughter probably heard Sandor's claim to be sleeping with Arya, which entirely eliminates the mystery of her presence.

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I don't think that anyone ever found that Sandor had a soft spot for Sansa.It's not as if the Hound would talk for such a matter to anyone.Actually i don't believe that anyone would have thought Sandor having a soft spot for anything except from killing.Therefore drawing conclusions or suspecting that he's escorting Sansa is not very possible.


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That's a good point about Arya and the Hound being so visible. I just got carried along by their awesome road trip but now that I think about it, I can see both sides (it's so obvious! vs. who would know or care?). Surprising Tywin did not put a bow in this loose thread and send out an envoy--"I'm looking for a highborn girl of 10, potty-mouthed rapscallion, horse-faced, likes to stab things."


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I'm probably in the.minority but I thought this was a weak episode. Iron Bank scene was...well, flat and boring to me. Asha at the Dreadfort seemed pointless and acchieved next to nothing save showing the further deterioration or Reek, which could.have been done in another way. I suppose if its to set Asha up for.something else then fair enough but right now.it feels wasted. Maybe just because it was such a mystery and so hyped up, maybe not :dunno:

Meereen wasnt bad. Liked that Hizdhar looks like he is going to be more fleshed out than in the books. So are we not getting Hazzea till E10 or.something then?

Trial was the highlight, but couldnt make up for the rest of the episode imo

Disagree here. Davos' speech to actually win some coin from the bankers was damn good.

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Disagree here. Davos' speech to actually win some coin from the bankers was damn good.

Yes, the scene was a huge set-up for Davos to win back Stannis' trust. Stannis now knows not to kill/indungeonate (I think I made that up) Davos, and trust him to go forth and do what we all expect Davos to do.

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Eye Of The Beholder, my friend.

Eye Of The Beholder. :devil:

I'm not commenting on the actress, she's a total milf (assuming she's had kids). It's the zombie+facial scars aspect. But then again all the facial scars from the books see to clean up quickly in the show :crying:

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Further, Sandor was kind of creepy with Sansa - the idea that he might pick up a young sexual object is also entirely plausible. The Mountain's men were very confused about why Sandor had deserted and what he was up to, but they didn't think it was weird at all for him to have a young female companion. People don't expect Sandor to serve as escort for noble ladies

But Sandor sure as hell would pick up a ransom-able young girl, and just who might be wandering the country side unaccounted for?

Varys was keeping that secret to himself.

Edited by boojam
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Yes, to several above... there is no way Varys got reports about the Hound without reports about the girl with him.



And backing up, there is no way that Varys' little birds didn't take note of the entourage that left KL with Yoren....and there is no way Varys didn't know about the pursuit of Gendry/death of Yoren/fate or the rest of the entourage.



And backing up, there is no way that Varys' little birds didn't scope out Arya in the crowd at the Sept of Baelor, and even before that, wandering aound Flea Bottom.


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That's what I'm thinking, boojam. SOMEBODY in Westeros has got to know Arya is alive and out there. I just can't remember how that plays into the fAyra plot later. Or perhaps it doesn't. It gets kinda blurry as of book 5.

In the books there is so much chaos on the country side that , as George paints it, and I don't remember them running into any high born, so it is not surprising that Arya goes unnoticed.

Well actually , you know, Arya has only three chapters in Feast and only 2(!) in Dance.

(I am not counting Mercy yet.)

Those 5 chapters were my favorites in novels 4 and 5.

They are not short, but I was intrigued every moment, everything seemed off center, and Arya was growing and changing.

The show could do well with Arya's Braavos stuff.

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Yes, to several above... there is no way Varys got reports about the Hound without reports about the girl with him.

And backing up, there is no way that Varys' little birds didn't take note of the entourage that left KL with Yoren....and there is no way Varys didn't know about the pursuit of Gendry/death of Yoren/fate or the rest of the entourage.

And backing up, there is no way that Varys' little birds didn't scope out Arya in the crowd at the Sept of Baelor, and even before that, wandering aound Flea Bottom.

There is. Varys and his littler birds are not omnipresent.

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There is. Varys and his littler birds are not omnipresent.

Agreed. Even if they were, I'm not sure that they would know that the kid with the Hound is Arya. Just that he has someone tagging along with him. Polliver didn't recognize her until she said that she would pick her teeth with Needle. Whats one more ragged little kid out of all the thousands displaced by the fighting?

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That's what I'm thinking, boojam. SOMEBODY in Westeros has got to know Arya is alive and out there. I just can't remember how that plays into the fAyra plot later. Or perhaps it doesn't. It gets kinda blurry as of book 5.

In the books and show, Berric Dondarrion and crew knew she was alive and looking to go to Riverrun (before the Red Wedding).

In AFFC, Brienne hears rumors that The Hound was with a high-born girl (whom she assumes is Sansa) when she is looking at the Saltpans. Septon Merribald specifically corrects Brienne and says that the Hound had Arya, not Sansa (he helps the smallfolk that help Dondarrion).

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OK, that too. But shirtlessness is so common and expected on GoT that I no longer even notice it :)

It's possible, of course, but why include something that would be so completely lost on show viewers who haven't read the books? He might have been thinking of Cersei and Jaime, Lysa and Littlefinger, even Shae and Tyrion (show-wise).

I just thought the look on Oberyn's face hinted at that... But I could be reaching. Every time Oberyn is onscreen, I am waiting for someone to mention Elia.

And although i have never thought about it, I agree with those that think that Varys is aware of Sansa's whereabouts and is keeping it quiet for now (in show and books). Keeping her undetected in the Vale means she can be of use to him in the future (he just has to deal with LF), however if she is captured and executed by the Lannisters, the North is lost to the Boltons (as far as Varys is concerned- assuming he doesn't know about Bran and Rickon).

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Varys has been using an extended network of spies indeed.But this doesn't mean that he knows everything.How the hell the wretched kids of Flea Bottom that are part of his "little birds" where supposed to recognize Arya for example?Or any other of his spies and informants?It's not as if Arya has some unique features that make her immediately recognizable and they can't exactly google her name,check her facebook or instagram to get some pictures of her.


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Great episode.

Theon/Ramsey bath scene was utterly horrific. Great acting by both, especially Alfie Allen. The sexual undertones were really uncomfortable... Especially the way Ramsey smiles at Theons ken doll patch.

I never picked up on a sexual interest Ramsey had in Theon in the books but others did and it seems like D and D did as well.

Tyrion was amazing. The whole trial was brilliant.

Oberyn owns every scene he is in.

I'm not so sure about Mace Tyrels portrayal. He seems extremely incompetent and I never got that impression from the books. He's an oaf. A bit of a buffoon. But he's not any bodies lap dog. I'm not bothered so much though. Different canon.

I cannot wait to see The Mountain.

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The weirdest bit was Sansa's necklace. We saw Littlefinger crush Sansa's necklace, so how the hell did Pycell get it or one that looked exactly like it? In that Rolling Stone interview with GRRM there was this:

That killing happens early in this fourth season. The books, of course, are well past the poisoning of King Joffrey.

In the books – and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal – the conclusion that the careful reader draws is that Joffrey was killed by the Queen of Thorns, using poison from Sansa's hairnet, so that if anyone did think it was poison, then Sansa would be blamed for it. Sansa had certainly good reason for it.

Doesn't it sound like GRRM is hinting there's more to Joffrey's poisoning than we suspect? Last week when Cersei asked Margaery if she still wanted to be Queen I thought, what the fuck? Wouldn't it be a real pisser if Cersei was in on the poisoning? It's a crazy idea I know, but Tyrion says, "if there's one person I'm sure of that didn't kill Joffrey it's Cersei." That's just too good of a line to not be true. Oh the irony! Think about it. Cersei was losing control of Joffrey, and there's also this from the Rolling Stones interview:

I don't know if somebody like Jaime or Cersei can be redeemed. Cersei's a great character – she's like Lady Macbeth.

Well, redeemed in whose eyes? She'll never be redeemed in the eyes of some. She's a character who's very protective of her children. You can argue, well, does she genuinely love her children, or does she just love them because they're her children? There's certainly a great level of narcissism in Cersei.

I would argue that Cersei viewed Joffrey as "hers", and when he wasn't "hers" anymore, she wanted him dead.

I don't know about Cersei killing Joffrey. I think he was the only one of her children she genuinely loved unconditionally (not that she doesn't love the others but she does so in a twisted way). She was always tender and proud of him, even if he was a monster but with Tommen, she is constantly disappointed.

But, I have always wondered whether she would have issues and try to fight in some way when Tommen comes of age and tries to take power. I've believed that is a possibility ever since that scene when Tommen wants to make some sort of decision because he is the king and she punishes him. Her thoughts are that Tommen can wait for his turn at ruling because, after everything she had take from Robert, her father, etc., it was her turn now.

It is disturbing that she would think she has earned this and it is her time, given that it is Tommen who is actually king, she has no claim to the position except as his Mother. The dynamic of power between her and Tommen is significantly different than it was with Joffrey, granted Tommen is younger- but still, it make me think Cersei may later have issues ceding power to Tommen. …Once she gets out of the trials.

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