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Ran

How would you rate episode 406?

How would you rate episode 406?  

717 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      3
    • 2
      2
    • 3
      5
    • 4
      4
    • 5
      5
    • 6
      20
    • 7
      42
    • 8
      126
    • 9
      289
    • 10
      220


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I think the argument goes - not unfairly - that Cogman is more consistent. While D&D do occasionally write a weaker script here and there, all of Cogman's episodes have been really top notch. In my view, he wrote the second best episode of Season 2, What Is Dead May Never Die, it's a tie between Rains of Castamere and Kissed by Fire for the honour of being the best Season 3 episode, and Laws of Gods and Men has clearly been the best episode of Season 4 so far. Bryan is very very good indeed.

On the other hand, I feel that GRRM is overrated on these boards. Not that his episodes are bad, they're certainly not, but besides Blackwater I don't think they particularly stand out. The Pointy End is a great episode, but not quite on the level of episodes directly preceding or following it. The Bear and the Maiden Fair is among the weaker Season 3 outings (though still pretty good; I don't get all the hate directed at it or The Climb), while The Lion and the Rose, although a good and enjoyable episode, is somewhat uneven at times.

Oh yes, Bryan Cogman is undoubtedly more consistent. However, he also only has one to two episodes to write every season, so he can focus on those instead of having to be responsible for 7 episodes per season. This season, D&D have been incredibly consistent, and I'm pretty sure they will knock it out of the park with the last 4! By the way, I agree that GRRM is a little overrated on the board, if only due to him making the worst episode of the series (barring The Night Lands) when the material he was given was slightly weaker than what he usually gets (about on par with what D&D get in their first three episodes, but they seem to do a better job).

Edited by Frey Pies

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worst episode of the series (barring The Night Lands)

Yeah, about that. Why does everyone hate poor Night Lands so much? :( I really dig that episode! KL stuff is fantastic, we see the introduction of the one and only Salladhor Saan, Theon's arrival on Pyke is handled very well, and in hindsight I especially like the changes made to Jon's story - witnessing a WW carry away the baby - because it leads to Jon's great explanation to Mance on why he left the NW (much better and more believable than in the books, I think).

Is it because of all the nudity in this episode? Theon on the boat, that hilarious and truly over-the-top scene in LF's brothel that cracks me up every time I see it, and then Stannis and Mel? It was a bit much, I'll grant you that. Coupled with some of the more pronounced deviations from the books, I can understand why people rate it lower. As I said, though, in my opinion it's a very good episode.

If I had to pick the weakest episodes so far - and even those I like as they have enough to recommend them - those would probably be: 1x02 The Kingsroad and 2x08 The Prince of Winterfell. Those two are the only episodes I feel are really mediocre. Everything else is at least good.

Edited by Mr Fixit

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Late putting in my two-pennorth - but here goes: An 8 for me, and I loved it.



Getting the bad out of the way.... I think the show runners hate the Ironborn as much as me ;) - what on earth was that mess at the Dreadfort? Although every time I see Alfie Allen's Theon now I want to cry, I just thought the scene did a great disservice to Yarasha after her stirring speeches at the end of the last season and in this one. I do know that the point of the scene was for the Ironborn to have closure on Theon so that the next step of their storyline can go forward, but my, was it clumsily handled! I enjoyed the bath scene in a twisted, isn't Ramsay evil sort of way, because yet again Alfie was superb. A totally broken man. It will make his act of bravery next season all the more moving.



What I loved was the opener in Braavos. Dillane can do no wrong for me, and he gave a masterclass in how to convey words with no lines yet again - the reproving looks he gave Davos were more eloquent than any words he could have spoken. Miss Clarke, please take note: this is how to act with facial expression alone. Less is more. Cunningham continues to impress, and I got Sala as a bonus, so all in all that was a winning sequence for me.



In fairness to Emilia's Dany, though, she did find a third facial expression in this episode, and I'm going to cut her a lot of slack for it. I could see her trying very hard to be more subtle. I thought her throne room looked magnificent. I'm not yet sure about Hizdahr, but the writers do seem to be giving him a motive here for later events. But are we ever going to get a situation where Jorah and Barristan are more than appendages? I'm getting a bit sick of them flanking Dany in her scenes and doing very little.



But these are small gripes. Now on to the great stuff: The trial was magnificently staged, and we saw a convincing change in Tyrion, turning to the dark side at last as he finally snapped. The dramatic tension was masterfully portrayed. I don't quite buy into the hyperbole about Dinklage's performance - there was a bit too much facial gurning for my tastes, but his lines were brilliant. NCW stole it for me - again, less is more - and his more subtle reactions were mesmerising. I also loved the scene between him and Tywin - but then, playing opposite Dance brings out the best in everyone. Pedro Pascal did fine work in this episode too.



And I give a 10 to the CGI department for magnificent shots of Drogon. The Dany scenes always have more oomph when we get a dragon or two :)



All in all, one of the best episodes so far. I'm looking forward to seeing dark Tyrion now.


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ETA: Strike that. I seem to have misinterpreted you. You didn't say that you gave only two episodes a 10, but that Cogman is the one (as opposed to Martin) you've never given a 10. Right?

I personally simply adore Kissed by Fire. That one deserves a straight 10 in my opinion. One of the very best episodes the show has ever done.

Correct. I gave "Kissed by Fire" a 9. I agree it's the best episode Cogman's written to date.

On the forum, GRRM's "The Pointy End" rates as the second best episode of its season, and the first 9+ average for the show. The finale of the season reached 9.09.

"Blackwater" is almost one full point ahead of every other episode in its season.

As to "The Bear and the Maiden Fair", the risibly raunchy Theon-Ramsay scene was the biggest beef a lot of people had (us, too), and everyone held it up as GRRM's poor writing... only for him to note that he didn't write any of it. Same with the bear pit, also from Benioff and Weiss, although there it was more of an issue of the simple realities of filming with a trained animal -- there's just so much one can do with it to "sell" it.

If you look at the rest of the material in that episode, there's some really good stuff, including what I think is the best Jon-Ygritte scene in the show. That episode without those two poor scenes would have been much better rated, I think (or without the one and -- somehow -- finding a better way to shoot the latter).

Edited by Ran

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Now that we've seen all 5 Cogman episodes produced thus far, do you think he's the best GoT writer?

Better than Martin mayhap? ^_^

"Unlikely"

I liked Cogman before this season, but since I gave "his" episodes a 3 and 4 this Season, I'd say he's way below George's league (and should never be given another episode). Of course, without seeing his exact script, it's hard to tell, since some scenes in "his" episodes may not have been his, and since he's not the director, it's hard to tell if the writing was at fault or the directors. For example, this episode was noticeably shorter then others, and Dreadfort scene (the biggest negative factor for me) was so bad that it looks like stuff was cut way after filming, so Cogman may have written the scene much better than it was delivered, but without any way to tell, I have to go by what was delivered.

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Yeah, about that. Why does everyone hate poor Night Lands so much? :( I really dig that episode! KL stuff is fantastic, we see the introduction of the one and only Salladhor Saan, Theon's arrival on Pyke is handled very well, and in hindsight I especially like the changes made to Jon's story - witnessing a WW carry away the baby - because it leads to Jon's great explanation to Mance on why he left the NW (much better and more believable than in the books, I think).

Is it because of all the nudity in this episode? Theon on the boat, that hilarious and truly over-the-top scene in LF's brothel that cracks me up every time I see it, and then Stannis and Mel? It was a bit much, I'll grant you that. Coupled with some of the more pronounced deviations from the books, I can understand why people rate it lower. As I said, though, in my opinion it's a very good episode.

If I had to pick the weakest episodes so far - and even those I like as they have enough to recommend them - those would probably be: 1x02 The Kingsroad and 2x08 The Prince of Winterfell. Those two are the only episodes I feel are really mediocre. Everything else is at least good.

Now that you mention the scenes, they seem quite solid to me. However, when I was watching it (which I haven't done for a long time), it was the one that had the least impact on me. A lot of people complain about the show, but I am extremely pumped up after every single episode. This was the only one that didn't have that kind of impact on me for some reason. It might have had to do with the fact that was the first and only episode I watched with other people, so some of the nude scenes were a little... awkward. I might go and rewatch it now :)

By the way, what do you consider the best episodes of the series (top 5)?

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By the way, what do you consider the best episodes of the series (top 5)?

Arghhhh, too constraining... does not compute...

I'll recuse myself from rating Season 4 because I need more time to let it truly sink in. A nice proper binge watch in a few months ought to do it. I do think it's very good though.

Anyway, I think TOP5 would have to be (in no particular order) Blackwater, You Win or You Die, Rains of Castamere, Kissed by Fire, Baelor, and What Is Dead May Never Die. Okay, that's 6, but I can't really take anything off that list.

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Dinklage saved the episode.



Yara at Dreadfort was a mess. And I am worried now about the show losing credibility with invincible super-villians (Shirtless Ramsay against armored IB, come on...) and teleporting characters (Yara and IB scape from Dreadfort).



No good, dont follow that route please.


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Did they cut out a Ramsay rape and killing scene? The episode was eight minutes short and the prior episode six or seven minutes short. Are they toning it down after Jaime scene?

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Did they cut out a Ramsay rape and killing scene? The episode was eight minutes short and the prior episode six or seven minutes short. Are they toning it down after Jaime scene?

Seems to me something was cut. I suspect Myranda died in some way but they chose to cut it for whatever reason. Maybe due to the recent Great Spring Outrage of 2014?

Edited by Mr Fixit

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Gave it an 8, just for the enthusiasm that I felt the show is back on course and for (apparently) deciding to cut Ramsay offing his playmate. I had enough of the irrelevant sexual violence, and the boob quota fans have the Bravosi baths scene.



The trial was not perfect. Shae's motivation is not clear due to the change from the books and Sibel Kekilli's acting. But the interaction of all the major players was exhilarating.



I didn't get the Bank thing, they are supposed to have their own informants, yet they are impressed by Davos' personal story, while Stannis isn't capable of saying one interesting word.



Yara: again, like in every episode of this season, stupid contradictions. Like having 4 king guards bypassed by Margaery. Here, fierce Iron Borns running from a naked Ramsay and a couple of dogs. What's up with this confusing storytelling?



I liked the setting up of the dragon killing the goat for now.



Beautiful CGI camera pan from Stannis' ship to the overview of Bravo.


Edited by 7th-key

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I doubt they cut anything after the Jaime and Cersei scene, considering the episode has been this runtime since the information about it was first revealed I believe. Also just because Ramsay had blood on his chest doesn't mean he killed Myranda. I'm sure Yara left guards outside that Ramsay ran into.


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I doubt they cut anything after the Jaime and Cersei scene, considering the episode has been this runtime since the information about it was first revealed I believe. Also just because Ramsay had blood on his chest doesn't mean he killed Myranda. I'm sure Yara left guards outside that Ramsay ran into.

I don't know why/if/when anything was specifically cut, but the scene looked like it was missing things in a few places (like any believable reason the Ironborn didn't win based on what was shown, how Ramsey got bloody the way he did without being killed, how Ashayara didn't kill Ramsey, or (if she failed) how they escaped. Since the episode was light on time, we have to assume *something* was cut at some time -- if not, the failure to have filmed the missing scenes is even worse mistake.

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I'm not saying that they definitely didn't cut something, that is totally possible. I just think it's extremely unlikely that they did it in the middle of the season.


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Seems to me something was cut. I suspect Myranda died in some way but they chose to cut it for whatever reason. Maybe due to the recent Great Spring Outrage of 2014?

I think you are right.

That was one crazy jump cut... Like it done a few days before the episode!

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654 votes, 8.77 average, 9 median, 8.94 normalized average.


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A little more number-crunching. Given my feeling that episode 3 is being very heavily penalized for one botched scene, I thought I'd average the scores of the top 5 of the first 6 episodes of each season, thereby dropping the lowest performer for each season. Here's the results of the forum polls, ranked in order.

S1: 8.41

S3: 8.326

S4: 8.108
S2: 8.048

Edited by Ran

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