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Thelastactionhero

Yet another balanced review of Stannis [Book Spoilers]

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Anybody else wish that after the Scene with Davos & stannis at the iron bank we could've seen stannis give Davos some type if thank you?

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As is the case with Dany's war on slavery, Stannis' arc is so unique, its mindless and pointless to analyze an adaptation of it without comparing the adaptation with the original. And this interview by Cogman gave me all the reasons why HBO's adaptation is so inferior to the source material.

Agreed. THe showrunners have not understood that Stannis' story is not a morality tale......(at least not yet). Stannis is a force of nature. A hurricane , an earthquake. A hurricane does not have to swallow its pride. A hurricane is.

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Anybody else wish that after the Scene with Davos & stannis at the iron bank we could've seen stannis give Davos some type if thank you?

He probably cut off some more of Davos' digits.

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Would you feel better if people used autonomy, sui iuris, or pittura infamante instead?

It would make me feel better.

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They still had the black water music though when we first saw Stannis on ship. I actually like the music but there's no other way to interpret it other than villianish. Stannis has 4k men, with the gold he will surely double that #. His triumph at the wall is going to be less glorious then it should be. Wildings outnumber Stannis 20-1 in book.

The Blackwater music isn't evil IMO, just a bit grim and menacing, and that's what Stannis is all about.

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I know there was a instant in Dance with Dragons (or Winds of Winter) when Theon was brought to Stannis. What chapter was it? Wasnt that Stannis's first encounter with the Iron Bank?

Yes. I'm sad they didn't do it that way.

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OTOH, it would seem even more awesome to see Tycho charge out of the snow during a certain blizzard.

Bryan Cogman said that the bank is still supporting the Lannister, but they also gave Stannis a loan. A smaller loan than what he wanted but a loan nonetheless. So we might still see Tycho coming to Stannis in season 5. IMO it would be even better than in show since their conversation would be a 180 of the scene in S4E6.

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And it would simply be impossible to achieve, if at the center of everything there's a man who has to swallow his pride. It would be ridiculous. The entire story would collapse. The man who can defy gods he uses by the way, who'll break rather than bend, and who inspires the ultimate devotion he got from Davos and Cressen, is not someone who "has to swallow his pride".

Third, boiling Stannis down to a man who has to swallow his pride is a very, very poor and unfortunate decision.

It would be ridiculous for a character who is continually told by multiple people, including a powerful sorceress, they are the second coming of the messiah and will be the one to ultimately defeat the Great Darkness and who for two books spoke about almost nothing save for what should be his "by right" to learn a lesson in humility? Humility seems like the exact thing a person like that would need. And on the Blackwater he got it. He regrouped, and by book five he's a fan favorite.

And I think it's a little reductionist to say that, based on that interview, Stannis can be boiled down only to a man who has to swallow his pride. There's more to Stannis than that. In the show as well as the books. Sure Cogman said it, but in no way did he say that's all Stannis is.

Agreed. THe showrunners have not understood that Stannis' story is not a morality tale......(at least not yet). Stannis is a force of nature. A hurricane , an earthquake. A hurricane does not have to swallow its pride. A hurricane is.

I also don't really understand this. What do you mean by a force of nature? A force of nature that, as a child, was convinced to abandon a pet he had nursed back to health? A force of nature that got crushed on the Blackwater? A force of nature that regrets killing his brother?

I feel that this and the above sentiment mirror the whole "Stannis will break before he bends" statement. It sounds cool, and we've heard it enough throughout the books, but isn't necessarily true based on what we've seen Stannis do. He bends to Davos suggesting going to the Wall, he bends to Jon advising him against marching on the dreadfort and gather the mountain clans. To me, that quote came about from people who either don't know him (as the story is told via POVs), or from before he got a dose of humility on the Blackwater...

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It would be ridiculous for a character who is continually told by multiple people, including a powerful sorceress, they are the second coming of the messiah and will be the one to ultimately defeat the Great Darkness and who for two books spoke about almost nothing save for what should be his "by right" to learn a lesson in humility? Humility seems like the exact thing a person like that would need. And on the Blackwater he got it. He regrouped, and by book five he's a fan favorite.

And I think it's a little reductionist to say that, based on that interview, Stannis can be boiled down only to a man who has to swallow his pride. There's more to Stannis than that. In the show as well as the books. Sure Cogman said it, but in no way did he say that's all Stannis is.

Oh, so the show is now in "Lecturing Stannis" business? They aren't adapting his story, but they're making him a better person, which is why they're serving him some humility he needs? If they are, they're doing a very poor job, by the way, which isn't surprising: when 21st century people know as little about banks and bankers as D&D evidently do (judging by the Iron Bank scene in the last episode), they're hardly fit to teach anyone about anything.

As for reductionism, just read what you wrote about Stannis: "A character who for two books spoke about almost nothing save for what should be his by right". You'll find a reduction at its finest there.

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I want people to know something. I went to the Game of Thrones "The Exhibition" in Toronto and there was Lightbringer in display and there were some quotes of the major characters in each of the different sections. Each section was divided by geography and Danny had her own "section". Anyways Dragonstone had Stannis and friends and the quote that they chose for Stannis was something that he hadn't said yet in the show. It was big enough for the unsullied to see! Also remember that this exhibition is about the show



"MY ENEMIES HAVE MADE MY KINGDOM BLEED. I WILL NOT FORGET THAT. I WILL NOT FORGIVE THAT. I WILL PUNISH THEM WITH ANY ARMS AT MY DISPOSAL".


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I think you're supposed to deduce, even though they kind of spell it out for you, that the IB doesn't believe the Iron Throne is paying them back, probably because they haven't yet and Tywin is near the end of his life. So like typical IB mentality they'll aid a man to take over who will pay them back. That's the point, they're convinced Stannis will pay them if they help him. Not so different from the books except that the Lannisters haven't outright refused them yet which is honestly sort of evident anyways since they've been indebted for so long already.

Honestly Stannis had zero good ideas at this point of the books anyways.

1) I actually thought it was pretty clear and smart how the writers showed that Davos correctly reasoned out that the Lannisters were only "talking about" paying their debts to the Iron Bank. "He doesn't just TALK about paying his debts...he actually does it."

2) I'm in the 2% of viewers who like show Stannis. Steven Dillane is amazing. And so is the character. I was angry with both book Robb and show Robb for not following his father's wishes and swearing fealty to Stannis. Things would have turned out so differently.

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Robb clearly wanted to declare for Stannis, but once his bannermen acclaimed him King in the North, there was no turning back.


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Robb clearly wanted to declare for Stannis, but once his bannermen acclaimed him King in the North, there was no turning back.

Well, Stannis hadn't declared by then. But even then, wouldn't Robb face the same issue of Renly regarding the succession? It seems that Robb's first choice would have been to crown Tommen - he says as much - but that's rather uninspiring and impractical.

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I was angry with both book Robb and show Robb for not following his father's wishes and swearing fealty to Stannis. Things would have turned out so differently.

Huh? Neither book-Robb nor show-Robb knew that Ned wanted Stannis to have the throne (or why). Stannis hadn't even declared himself King when Robb was crowned.

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I want people to know something. I went to the Game of Thrones "The Exhibition" in Toronto and there was Lightbringer in display and there were some quotes of the major characters in each of the different sections. Each section was divided by geography and Danny had her own "section". Anyways Dragonstone had Stannis and friends and the quote that they chose for Stannis was something that he hadn't said yet in the show. It was big enough for the unsullied to see! Also remember that this exhibition is about the show

"MY ENEMIES HAVE MADE MY KINGDOM BLEED. I WILL NOT FORGET THAT. I WILL NOT FORGIVE THAT. I WILL PUNISH THEM WITH ANY ARMS AT MY DISPOSAL".

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but is that the line that was used? Because he has already said that in the show.

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