DaveyJoe Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Perhaps I misremember it but didn't LF crush the necklace stones and toss it into the ocean? Is it possible that the necklace last night was an impostor, through chance or machinations? It didn't look like Sansa's necklace to me, I thought it was the necklace Marg was wearing in episode 4. The necklace that The Queen of Thornes tugs when she tells Marg to "play her part." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgryn-strk-lnstr-mrtell Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 It didn't look like Sansa's necklace to me, I thought it was the necklace Marg was wearing in episode 4. The necklace that The Queen of Thornes tugs when she tells Marg to "play her part." he crushes one stone, i seem to recall him carelessly flinging it off the boat after his display to Sansa... but could very well be a fake necklace made by Pycelle or Cersei, they are fabricating evidence after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaquentis Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 It didn't look like Sansa's necklace to me, I thought it was the necklace Marg was wearing in episode 4. The necklace that The Queen of Thornes tugs when she tells Marg to "play her part." No, it was definitely Sansa's necklace. Littlefinger had smashed one of the stones on it and threw it back on Dontos's corpse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envie Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 he crushes one stone, i seem to recall him carelessly flinging it off the boat after his display to Sansa... but could very well be a fake necklace made by Pycelle or Cersei, they are fabricating evidence after all Right. It's most definitely the same necklace with several stones now missing or crushed. Littlefinger purposely threw that necklace back on Dontos body and purposely left them both as clues. Why, I have no idea. In the books he dumps the body overboard... no evidence of Dontos connection. In the show, they leave Dontos floating in a rowboat with an arrow through his head and the necklace laying there conspicuously on his body... no that's not obvious at all! Sansa obviously didn't shoot Dontos and throw her necklace down - but apparently no one at Tyrion's trial is interested in trying to connect who the accomplice is that shot Dontos and put the necklace there and then whisked Sansa away. Pretty big obvious evidence there ... They did it for the dramatic effect. Littlefinger wouldn't have done that and in fact didn't do it in the book. The show writers wanted the necklace to get back to King's Landing because they feel the need to keep bashing viewers over the head with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Crashing Waves Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Drogon stealing the goat wasn't subtle enough. I felt they overdid it with the fire and his roar sounded forced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Drogon stealing the goat wasn't subtle enough. I felt they overdid it with the fire and his roar sounded forced. Total character assasination. First Puddles, then Ghost and now Drogon. D&D hate magical creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caucasian_rodent Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 After today's episode I think Shae has genuine feelings for Tyrion. When he adresses her for the first time you can hear how her voice falter before continuing her speech. Also, just after Tyrion demands a battle trial you see how she looks very surprised and franctic (eyes flitting back and forth). Clearly, this is something she did not expect nor wished for.My hypothesis is that Shae was not coerced into doing what she did in that sense that her life was threatened. I rather think she was offered a deal by Tywin in much the same way Jamie was = "you tell on him, make him look bad / guilty, and I make sure he survives and send him to the Wall".This would also be more fitting of the personality we have seen in Shae so far (i.e. she knew she was living a risky life with Tyrion and agreed to it anyway. I can see her resigning herself to being killed).In other words: Shae is trying to protect Tyrion by doing what Tywin asked of her so that he will be send to the Wall rather than killed.I think that Tywin did not expect Tyrion to be that deeply in love with Shae. He wanted Tyrion to be pushed, but not that far. EDIT: Also, I think that the show is not really deviating from the books here. The difference is, that we are not biased by Tyrion's POV in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamLemonCakeBraavos Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Interesting to note: wicnet (on Tumblr) just posted an interview with the actress who plays Shae. She talks about wanting to take out the Sansa line in her testimony. She says she argued with D&D to take it out because it was inconsistent with what she felt were genuine feeling of 'care' for Sansa (by Shae) and also, with her character having JUST said that she'd "kill for that girl". Interesting that they left it in not only because of her protest...but also because not even in the books did they go "all out" in placing the blame on Sansa too. I wonder if there's a future purpose to doing this, or if its simply because they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I wonder if there's a future purpose to doing this, or if its simply because they can. Having emphasized the Shae/Sansa relationship in the past, I would guess they thought it would be dramatic for her to say that sort of thing (much as with Tyrion). I don't think this is a big change either way, in terms of the overarching narrative. Pretty much everybody in the books took it as a given that Sansa was involved, which was really the only logical inference from her disappearance (and, indeed, she was "involved", albeit unintentionally). And Shae said she was involved, even if not quite so strongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgryn-strk-lnstr-mrtell Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Right. It's most definitely the same necklace with several stones now missing or crushed. Littlefinger purposely threw that necklace back on Dontos body and purposely left them both as clues. Why, I have no idea. In the books he dumps the body overboard... no evidence of Dontos connection. In the show, they leave Dontos floating in a rowboat with an arrow through his head and the necklace laying there conspicuously on his body... no that's not obvious at all! Sansa obviously didn't shoot Dontos and throw her necklace down - but apparently no one at Tyrion's trial is interested in trying to connect who the accomplice is that shot Dontos and put the necklace there and then whisked Sansa away. Pretty big obvious evidence there ... They did it for the dramatic effect. Littlefinger wouldn't have done that and in fact didn't do it in the book. The show writers wanted the necklace to get back to King's Landing because they feel the need to keep bashing viewers over the head with it. probably true :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envie Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Interesting to note: wicnet (on Tumblr) just posted an interview with the actress who plays Shae. She talks about wanting to take out the Sansa line in her testimony. She says she argued with D&D to take it out because it was inconsistent with what she felt were genuine feeling of 'care' for Sansa (by Shae) and also, with her character having JUST said that she'd "kill for that girl". Interesting that they left it in not only because of her protest...but also because not even in the books did they go "all out" in placing the blame on Sansa too. I wonder if there's a future purpose to doing this, or if its simply because they can. It's nice to know the actress playing Shae argued for a change to the script because it didn't feel consistent with her previous relationship or actions with Sansa. I felt this way too. They should have either made Shae unsympathetic to Sansa (as she was in the books) or stuck with the sympathy angle and not had Shae throw Sansa under the bus at the trial. It's just one minor quibble in an otherwise solid performance and scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgryn-strk-lnstr-mrtell Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Drogon stealing the goat wasn't subtle enough. I felt they overdid it with the fire and his roar sounded forced. i'm glad it wasn't subtle...i've been dying to see the dragons in actions since Astapor, even then, dragons weren't on focus...what's the point of them spending so much on CGI for dragons if we don't even get a good shot of them...i just wish they showed some of Raeghal and Viseron too :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Shae is so vile. I dont care who knows it, i fucking hate her and always will. I have to give the actress props for being somewhat decent for once. She knew that was a big scene for her character so she mustered effort. Personally, all that shit about Sansa was sheer spite. I do think she was coerced by Tywin and Cersei both. As for the trial, Dinklage rocked ass with his speech. A thousand lying whores may be "where do whores go" for the show. Maybe. Well, it is a power thing with Sansa. They know Sansa will be a widow and a virgin at that, the person with the best claim to the North and she is OUT of their control. So, lets make her a wanted criminal for Regicide with the punishment of death. Next best thing than having her in their control. I could see Tv show, having her marry Jaime if she never got away and Tyrion killed or Nights Watch but that will not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamLemonCakeBraavos Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Having emphasized the Shae/Sansa relationship in the past, I would guess they thought it would be dramatic for her to say that sort of thing (much as with Tyrion). I don't think this is a big change either way, in terms of the overarching narrative. Pretty much everybody in the books took it as a given that Sansa was involved, which was really the only logical inference from her disappearance (and, indeed, she was "involved", albeit unintentionally). And Shae said she was involved, even if not quite so strongly. You're right. Perhaps I'm just reading way too much in to it (as is my tendency). I guess I'm just confused as to why they over-emphasize or under-emphasize certain things. I mean, I'm not complaining, I'm just genuinely confused. That Sansa is brought up in the trial and accuse (even by Shae) does indeed happen in the books, but I guess...not to this degree. I never read it as being overly emphasized. In the show, they broke out the necklace and made up a very plausible, "Tyrion did it all for the nookie" story that would have me convinced if I had no idea what was going on. Humph. I don't know. Jut felt like the over-emphasis felt weird. But in the end, you're probably right. Most likely means nothing and was inserted for dramatic effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Belmont the Dragon Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 What the fuck was shae thinking did she not figure out Tyrion was trying to save her from becoming a Tisha part 2 Tywin does nasty shit if he feels slighted but no Shae thinks her and Tyrion could win. And Peter Dinklage performance was powerful. And every one in the courtroom is a cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SummerSong Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Oh please, this is a character whose life is about to be taken unjustly, he is being publicly humiliated by virtually everyone he has been around, and just got the shock of seeing his one love participate in having him killed by throwing in all their secret intimacies along with a passel of lies designed to humiliate and debase him as much as possible. You think his facial expressions should be subtle in that situation? :agree: Tyrion has had to eat shit his whole life, and this grossly unfair, humiliating farce of a trial – manipulated by his own family and including Shea's very personal betrayal – pushed him over the edge. For once he said what he truly thinks instead of being diplomatic. This is an understandable and very human reaction when we are pushed to the limit. His emotional outburst reflects a lifetime of pent-up rage, and in the heat of the moment he made a high risk life-or-death gamble. We also know Tyrion would loathe the "compromise" of being sentenced to the Night's Watch for the rest of his life, so that probably also played a part. He's screwed either way. IMO the scene was powerful and believable as is. PD totally nailed it; his words and emotions made the scene electric. Bravo! I can't wait to watch the fallout. LF in the show failed to set fire to the boat with Dontos' body in it, and he tossed the purple-gem-object in there too. It would be plausible that someone found it. Both are changes from the book, but while I can understand it being used in the trial, the fact that Dontos was found dead in a boat leads to the inevitable conclusion that Sansa would have escaped by sea. So I'm not sure how they plan to deal with that fact, if at all. Yes. LF deliberately tossed Sansa's necklace on top of Dontos in the boat and left them to be found by others, either by being washed ashore or discovered by a passing boat. He is too cunning to have thoughtlessly left this damning loose end, so it had to be deliberate. Why does he want to clearly implicate Sansa in Joffrey's murder? It's literally life-threatening, and I thought he wanted her alive and under his control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 the fact that Dontos was found dead in a boat leads to the inevitable conclusion that Sansa would have escaped by sea. So I'm not sure how they plan to deal with that fact, if at all. Why would that need to be dealt with. That she took a boat doesn't lend itself to any particular destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Why would that need to be dealt with. That she took a boat doesn't lend itself to any particular destination. True...too bad Brienne missed that memo though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Hand of the King Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I find this whole praise for Dinklage to be baffling. I thought he really overdid it with all the expressions in the end - he came off as cartoonish villain instead of heartbroken and bitter. He was great with small moments like the little smirk he gives Tywin before the end and the look on his face when Shae walked in, but this? Emmy worthy? 1x09 was Emmy worthy. Here I saw an actor who phones it in and thinks material and little effort will do the job. Pascal was my MVP of the ep. Did so much with so little. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I suppose I didn't find it over the top just because he was really spewing out a lot of things that were building up in him for his entire life. I found his expressions to really demostrate how furious he was with everyone and that he had finally snapped. After all the Tyrion "whitewashing" talk I guess I really appreciated him going apeshit on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmaster Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Why does he want to clearly implicate Sansa in Joffrey's murder? It's literally life-threatening, and I thought he wanted her alive and under his control. So that Sansa has nowhere else to go. It was pretty much the same in the books (though some have argued the point with me, in regard to how much agency Sansa has). She's Littlefinger's hostage in all but name. He needs her to feel not just grateful for rescuing her, but needs her to know she is complicit in Joffrey's murder, so she feels that she'd be hunted if she left his protection. He wants to be the only person Sansa feels she can trust- they've committed a crime together, whether she was a willing participant or not. If the world knows (or if she thinks the world knows), who else can she turn to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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