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Uldra I

[Spoilers] Who's Cruelty is Worse, Ramsay's or Shae's?

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The opening post reminds me of that saying "Men are frightened that women will laugh at them and women are frightened that men might murder them."


Honestly people have their hearts broken all the time and they get over it. Generally speaking torturing and castrating someone is considered criminal.


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The fact that you can even compare Shae with Ramsay in any context is mind-boggling.


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Ramsay.



Shae is a whore and does what she is paid to do. She did that with the guy before Tyrion, with Tyrion...and the guy after Tyrion.


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Ramsey comes off more as just crazy than cruel although I guess what he does is very cruel... but with Shae it really cuts deep.


Also I don't hate Ramsay at all he's one of my favourites to watch!


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[sorry - quoted myself instead of editing previous post...]

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When I watched the scene with Shae at Tyrion's trial, all I could think of was that not only was she not rocket scientist material, but she was really dumb. All she was doing was reacting to how he blew her off. She never understood the threat Cersei and Tywin posed, she never got it at all. I don't think she was forced: I think she was just getting back at him for dumping her. She was just mad. I think she really cared for Tyrion, but also she cared for him because he was a Lannister. Her emotions are simple and straight forward because she is shallow. Even now she probably doesn't get it that what she did would cause Tyrion to lose his life.



Comparing her to Ramsey Snow is like comparing an owl hunting mice to a serial killer. He is evil incarnate, perhaps one of the most evil and fascinating characters in the series.


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Ramsay, no question.

Interesting that Shae throws Sansa under the bus, though.

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This has to be one of the most misogynistic things I have read on here, and that's saying something.


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I hope this is some kind of high level sarcarsm, and no one really thinks that the guy who tortures, kills and rapes for fun "might" be less evil than the poor girl who ended up a whore and testified against her former patron.


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Ramsay's by far.



The way the scene played out, I think Shae's motives were more than just being paid. I think she was really hurt by Tyrion's words and rejection of her. She didn't realize I guess that it was because Tyrion was scared that his father would kill her, or maybe she thought he should've left Sansa and King's Landing and go off with her. I feel bad for Shae, and I don't understand how she's being compared to Ramsay. And Tyrion is my fave character so it's not "Tyrion fanboyism" this is something else....


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I think the writers thought that making Shae a spurned love would add to her sympathy. Weirdly it is the opposite for me. I could at least respect her as a gold digging whore. She was just trying to further her lot in life and accepting herself. All show Shae did was bitch and moan and demand miracles from Tyrion.



But that's hardly as bad as cutting his penis off and sending it to his family with the promise of mutilated all of their countrymen.


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I think the writers thought that making Shae a spurned love would add to her sympathy. Weirdly it is the opposite for me. I could at least respect her as a gold digging whore. She was just trying to further her lot in life and accepting herself. All show Shae did was bitch and moan and demand miracles from Tyrion.

This.

tyrion treated her pretty well all things considered, and anyone with a working brain would've realised he lied to her in their last meeting before the last for her own good, which was paternalistic as hell, but well-intentional. She should've realised a high noble like him couldn't marry her, take the money and enjoy life in Essos. Instead she is trying to get Tyrion killed out of jealousy. Book Shae, while pretty terrible person in general, at least was threatened to some degree to testify and this was her one shot in life to get rich.

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The fact that she really cared about him and got jealous does not make me like Shae any less. Maybe she's not as cunning as Book!Shae, but she has more heart. I can't believe that's being looked at as being worse than purposefully manipulating someone for personal gain.


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She might as well have removed Tyrion's penis and his heart as well.

No. Just no.

Ramsay is worse by a million magnitudes.

I interpreted Shae's "I'm a whore" line as referencing her and Tyrion's last exchange in which he resorted to calling her a whore to drive her away. That obviously hurt her since - even though she is a whore - she thought that their relationship had taken on more meaning than that. She looked right at him and delivered the line with a more cutting tone that she had been using. I think her testifying was a combination of coercion and revenge. She wants to hurt Tyrion because he hurt her.

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Seriously? Did you see her reaction when Tyrion addressed her? She was sad and said "I'm a whore", because that's who she is, and therefore had no choice on the matter. She's a victim, too.

A victim? Not buying it. I have no doubt she was forced to lie by Cersei but she was clearly enjoying herself and said more than she needed to if it was just to comply with Cersei or Tywin's demands. Maybe it was just bad acting and she wasn't meant to have been so spiteful and taking pleasure in it but that is hos it came across. If they wanted us to believe her the victim the should have streamlined her dialogue and made her give the bare minimum in testimony.

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I think the classicism of Tyrion and Shae's relationship is something which shouldn't be overlooked and was always subtext.

Shae and Tyrion were never equals in the show.

And we see the poison this makes their relationship.

Sansa was just the breaking point of what was always there, that Tyrion the respectable nobleman married to Sansa could never be with Shae.

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My question . . . who betrayed Tyrion in order to enable Shae to be at the trial? Bronn told Tyrion Shae was on the ship and it sailed away. Either Varys didn't take it across the sea or Bronn never brought her to the ship like he said?


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Give Shae a flaying knife and a chained up Tyrion and she would put Ramsay to shame. Hell hath no fury like a whore scorned.


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